Talk 59

4th July, 1935
Talk 59.

A moulvi asked: How does sleep overtake one?

If the enquirer knows who is awake in the wakeful condition he will also know how sleep comes on. The enquiry arises only to the waking man and not to the sleeper. It must be easier to know the waking Self than the sleeping Self.
D.: I know how I awoke. But I do not know how sleep comes on. I
am aware of my wakeful state. For instance if anyone takes away my stick I prevent his doing so, whereas I cannot do so in sleep or in dream. The proof of wakefulness is evident. But what is the proof of sleep?

Your ignorance is the evidence of sleep: your awareness is that of wakefulness.
D.: My wakefulness is known by the opening of my eye. But how does sleep overtake me?

In the same way as sleep overtakes you, wakefulness also overtakes you.
D.: But I do not perceive how sleep comes on in the same way as I
know my wakefulness.

Never mind.
D.: Please describe what is sleep, without illustrations. Sleep by itself should be known. I want a real picture of sleep.

Such picture is sleep itself.
D.: Is it better to reach salvation, being married, or being a hermit?

Whatever you think better.
D.: Visvamitra had no fall when in the married state, whereas he had a fall in his hermit life. Does it not apply to others also?

Maharshi: Visvamitra was as pure in the hermit life as when he was married.
There was no difference. He was as contaminated when married as when he was a hermit.
D.: Was he a rishi?

When contaminated he was not a rishi.
D.: Can he become a rishi even afterwards?

Yes. By proper bhakti [?] he could become a good rishi. Repentance and prayer will set him right.
D.: With all your penance for so many years what have you got?

I have got what need be got. I see what need be seen.
D.: Can all see the same?

I see only just what all do. It is immanent in all.
D.: Is this the way for seeing It?

Method may be anything. From whatever directions the pilgrims may foregather, they must enter the Kaaba only by one route (passage) or all gather only to enter the Kaaba.
D.: Please tell me two upadesas on the way to salvation as known by you.

What upadesa [?] do I know? Everything is upadesa. Worship of God is the only upadesa.

Talk 58 Talk 60