14th December, 1935
Talk 110.
An American lady asked Bhagavan what his experiences of samadhi were. When suggested that she should relate her experiences and ask if they were right, she replied that Sri Bhagavan's experiences ought to be correct and should be known, whereas her own were unimportant. She thus wanted to know if Sri Bhagavan felt his body hot or cold in samadhi, if he spent the first three and a half years of his stay at Tiruvannamalai in prayers and so on.
Maharshi: Samadhi transcends mind and speech and cannot be described. For example, the state of deep slumber cannot be described; samadhi
state can still less be explained.
D.: But I know that I am unconscious in deep sleep.
Maharshi: Consciousness and unconsciousness are only modes of the mind.
Samadhi transcends the mind.
D.: Still you can say what it is like.
Maharshi: You will know only when you are in samadhi.
Talk 109 Talk 111
Showing posts with label states. Show all posts
Showing posts with label states. Show all posts
Talk 108
29th November, 1935
Talk 108.
In continuation of dialogue 105: Uddalaka explained that all proceeds from sat [?] (as illustrated by deep sleep). The body takes food. Food requires water. Water requires heat to digest the food. (Tejo mulamanvichcha) It is sat parasyam devatayam (merged in the Be-ing). If we are sat sampannah (merged in the Be-ing), how is it that we do not realise it?
Maharshi: Just as the honey gathered from different flowers forms the bulk in a honeycomb, and each drop does not indicate wherefrom it has been collected, so also sat sampannah in deep sleep, death, etc. , people do not recognise their individualities. They slip into that state unawares. But when they wake up they regain their original individual characteristics.
D.: Honey, though collected from different flowers, becomes the bulk and does not possess individual characteristics. But the individual parts do not also exist in the drops and they do not return to their sources. Whereas the individuals after going to deep sleep wake up individuals as formerly. How is it?
Maharshi: Just as the rivers discharged into the ocean lose their individualities , still the waters evaporate and return as rain on the hills and through rivers to the ocean, so also the individuals going to sleep lose their individualities and yet return as individuals according to their previous vasanas unawares. Thus, even in death, sat is not lost.
D.: How can that be?
Maharshi: See how a tree, whose branches are cut, grows again. So long as the life-source is not affected it will grow. Similarly the samskaras (anamneses) sink into the heart in death: they do not perish. They will in right time sprout forth from the heart. That is how the jivas are reborn.
D.: How does the wide universe sprout forth from such subtle samskaras remaining sunk in the heart?
Maharshi: Just as a big banyan tree sprouts from a tiny seed, so the wide universe with names and forms sprouts forth from the heart.
D.: If the origin is sat why is it not felt?
Maharshi: The salt in the lump is visible; it is invisible in solution. Still its existence is known by taste. Similarly sat, though not recognised by the intellect, can still be realised in a different way, i.e., transcendentally.
D.: How?
Maharshi: Just as a man blindfolded and left by robbers in a jungle enquires his way home and returns there, so also the ignorant one (blinded by ignorance) enquires of those not so blinded and seeks his own source and returns to it.
Then, Gurupadesa - "Vang manasi sampadyate, manah prane,
pranastejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam iti."
D.: If so, a Jnani [?] or an ajnani [?] dies in the same manner. Why is an ajnani reborn, whereas a Jnani is not?
Maharshi: Just as an innocent man satyabhisandha is not affected by the test of touching red hot iron but a thief is affected, so also the sadbrahma satyabhisandha, i.e., a Jnani, enters into sat consciously and merges, whereas the other enters unaware and is thrown out unawares also.
Talk 107 Talk 109
Talk 108.
In continuation of dialogue 105: Uddalaka explained that all proceeds from sat [?] (as illustrated by deep sleep). The body takes food. Food requires water. Water requires heat to digest the food. (Tejo mulamanvichcha) It is sat parasyam devatayam (merged in the Be-ing). If we are sat sampannah (merged in the Be-ing), how is it that we do not realise it?
Maharshi: Just as the honey gathered from different flowers forms the bulk in a honeycomb, and each drop does not indicate wherefrom it has been collected, so also sat sampannah in deep sleep, death, etc. , people do not recognise their individualities. They slip into that state unawares. But when they wake up they regain their original individual characteristics.
D.: Honey, though collected from different flowers, becomes the bulk and does not possess individual characteristics. But the individual parts do not also exist in the drops and they do not return to their sources. Whereas the individuals after going to deep sleep wake up individuals as formerly. How is it?
Maharshi: Just as the rivers discharged into the ocean lose their individualities , still the waters evaporate and return as rain on the hills and through rivers to the ocean, so also the individuals going to sleep lose their individualities and yet return as individuals according to their previous vasanas unawares. Thus, even in death, sat is not lost.
D.: How can that be?
Maharshi: See how a tree, whose branches are cut, grows again. So long as the life-source is not affected it will grow. Similarly the samskaras (anamneses) sink into the heart in death: they do not perish. They will in right time sprout forth from the heart. That is how the jivas are reborn.
D.: How does the wide universe sprout forth from such subtle samskaras remaining sunk in the heart?
Maharshi: Just as a big banyan tree sprouts from a tiny seed, so the wide universe with names and forms sprouts forth from the heart.
D.: If the origin is sat why is it not felt?
Maharshi: The salt in the lump is visible; it is invisible in solution. Still its existence is known by taste. Similarly sat, though not recognised by the intellect, can still be realised in a different way, i.e., transcendentally.
D.: How?
Maharshi: Just as a man blindfolded and left by robbers in a jungle enquires his way home and returns there, so also the ignorant one (blinded by ignorance) enquires of those not so blinded and seeks his own source and returns to it.
Then, Gurupadesa - "Vang manasi sampadyate, manah prane,
pranastejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam iti."
D.: If so, a Jnani [?] or an ajnani [?] dies in the same manner. Why is an ajnani reborn, whereas a Jnani is not?
Maharshi: Just as an innocent man satyabhisandha is not affected by the test of touching red hot iron but a thief is affected, so also the sadbrahma satyabhisandha, i.e., a Jnani, enters into sat consciously and merges, whereas the other enters unaware and is thrown out unawares also.
Talk 107 Talk 109
Talk 105
28th November, 1935
Talk 105.
Maharshi: Yena asrutam srutam bhavati (Chandogya Upanishad). (By knowing which, all the unknown becomes known.)
Madhavaswami, Bhagavan's attendant: Are there nine methods of teaching the Mahavakya `Tat vamasi' in the Chandogya Upanishad?
Maharshi: No. Not so. The method is only one. Uddalaka started teaching Sat eva
Somya (There is only Being ) illustrating it with Svetaketu's fast.
(1) Sat [?], the Being in the individual, is made obvious by the fast. (2) This (sat [?]) Being is similar in all, as honey gathered from different flowers. (3) There is no difference in the sat of individuals as illustrated by the state of deep sleep. The question arises - if so, why does not each know it in sleep? (4) Because the individuality is lost. There is only sat left.
Illustration: rivers lost in the ocean. If lost, is there sat? (5) Surely - as when a tree is pruned it grows again. That is a sure sign of its life. But is it there even in that dormant condition? (6) Yes, take the instance of salt and water. The presence of the salt in water is subtle. Though invisible to the eye it is recognised by other senses. How is one to know it? What is the other means? (7) By enquiry, as the man left in the Gandhara forest regained his home. (8) In evolution and involution, in manifestation and resolution, sat alone exists. Tejah parasyam, devatayam (the light merges in the Supreme). (9) An insincere man is hurt by the touch of fire test. His insincerity is brought out by fire. Sincerity is Self-evident. A true man or a Self realised man remains happy, without being affected by the false appearances (namely the world, birth and death, etc.), whereas the false or ignorant man is miserable.
Talk 104 Talk 106
Talk 105.
Maharshi: Yena asrutam srutam bhavati (Chandogya Upanishad). (By knowing which, all the unknown becomes known.)
Madhavaswami, Bhagavan's attendant: Are there nine methods of teaching the Mahavakya `Tat vamasi' in the Chandogya Upanishad?
Maharshi: No. Not so. The method is only one. Uddalaka started teaching Sat eva
Somya (There is only Being ) illustrating it with Svetaketu's fast.
(1) Sat [?], the Being in the individual, is made obvious by the fast. (2) This (sat [?]) Being is similar in all, as honey gathered from different flowers. (3) There is no difference in the sat of individuals as illustrated by the state of deep sleep. The question arises - if so, why does not each know it in sleep? (4) Because the individuality is lost. There is only sat left.
Illustration: rivers lost in the ocean. If lost, is there sat? (5) Surely - as when a tree is pruned it grows again. That is a sure sign of its life. But is it there even in that dormant condition? (6) Yes, take the instance of salt and water. The presence of the salt in water is subtle. Though invisible to the eye it is recognised by other senses. How is one to know it? What is the other means? (7) By enquiry, as the man left in the Gandhara forest regained his home. (8) In evolution and involution, in manifestation and resolution, sat alone exists. Tejah parasyam, devatayam (the light merges in the Supreme). (9) An insincere man is hurt by the touch of fire test. His insincerity is brought out by fire. Sincerity is Self-evident. A true man or a Self realised man remains happy, without being affected by the false appearances (namely the world, birth and death, etc.), whereas the false or ignorant man is miserable.
Talk 104 Talk 106
Talk 82
16th October, 1935
Talk 82.
A question was raised about the differences in the various samadhis.
Maharshi: When the senses are merged in darkness it is deep sleep; when merged in light it is samadhi. Just as a passenger when asleep in a carriage is unaware of the motion, the halting or the unharnessing of the horses, so also a Jnani [?] in sahaja samadhi [?] is unaware of the happenings, waking, dream and deep sleep.
Here sleep corresponds to the unharnessing of the horses. And samadhi corresponds to the halting of the horses, because the senses are ready to act just as the horses are ready to move after halting. In samadhi the head does not bend down because the senses are there though inactive; whereas the head bends down in sleep because the senses are merged in darkness. In kevala samadhi [?], the activities (vital and mental), waking, dream and sleep, are only merged, ready to emerge after regaining the state other than samadhi.
In sahaja [?] samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he did not take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even when reminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi. Sushumna pare leena. Here sushumna [?] refers to tapo marge whereas the para nadi [?] refers to jnana marga [?].
Talk 81 Talk 83
Talk 82.
A question was raised about the differences in the various samadhis.
Maharshi: When the senses are merged in darkness it is deep sleep; when merged in light it is samadhi. Just as a passenger when asleep in a carriage is unaware of the motion, the halting or the unharnessing of the horses, so also a Jnani [?] in sahaja samadhi [?] is unaware of the happenings, waking, dream and deep sleep.
Here sleep corresponds to the unharnessing of the horses. And samadhi corresponds to the halting of the horses, because the senses are ready to act just as the horses are ready to move after halting. In samadhi the head does not bend down because the senses are there though inactive; whereas the head bends down in sleep because the senses are merged in darkness. In kevala samadhi [?], the activities (vital and mental), waking, dream and sleep, are only merged, ready to emerge after regaining the state other than samadhi.
In sahaja [?] samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he did not take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even when reminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi. Sushumna pare leena. Here sushumna [?] refers to tapo marge whereas the para nadi [?] refers to jnana marga [?].
Talk 81 Talk 83
Talk 43
28th March, 1935
Talk 43.
Mr. S. Ranganathan, I.C.S., Collector of Vellore, Mr. S. V. Ramamurthi, I.C.S. and Mr. T. Raghaviah, late Diwan of Pudukottah State, visited the Asramam. Mr. Ranganathan asked, "Kindly instruct me as to how the mind may be controlled."
Maharshi: There are two methods. The one is to see what the mind is; then it subsides. The second is to fix your attention on something; then the mind remains quiet. The questioner repeated the question for further elucidation. The same answer was returned with a little more added. The questioner did not look satisfied.
Mr. Raghaviah: Men of the world that we are, we have some kind of grief or another and do not know how to get over it. We pray to God and still are not satisfied. What can we do?
Maharshi: Trust God.
D.: We surrender; but still there is no help.
Maharshi: Yes. If you have surrendered, you must be able to abide by the will of God and not make a grievance of what may not please you. Things may turn out differently from what they look apparently. Distress often leads men to faith in God.
D.: But we are worldly. There is the wife, there are the children, friends and relatives. We cannot ignore their existence and resign ourselves to Divine Will, without retaining some little of the personality in us.
Maharshi: That means you have not surrendered as professed by you. You must only trust God.
Mr. Ramamurthi: Swamiji, I have read Brunton's book A Search in Secret India, and was much impressed by the last chapter, where he says that it is possible to be conscious without thinking. I know that one can think, remaining forgetful of the physical body. Can one think without the mind? Is it possible to gain that consciousness which is beyond thoughts?
Maharshi: Yes. There is only one consciousness, which subsists in the waking , dream and sleep states. In sleep there is no `I'. The `I-thought' arises on waking and then the world appears. Where was this `I' in sleep? Was it there or was it not? It must have been there also, but not in the way that you feel now. The present is only the `I-thought', whereas the sleeping `I' is the real `I'. It subsists all through. It is consciousness. If it is known you will see that it is beyond thoughts.
D.: Can we think without the mind?
Maharshi: Thoughts may be like any other activities, not disturbing to the Supreme consciousness.
D.: Can one read others' minds?
The Master as usual told him to find his Self before worrying about others. "Where are others apart from one's own Self?" asked the Master.
Mr. Raghaviah: How shall we correlate the higher experience with the lower experience (meaning spiritual experience with mundane affairs)?
Maharshi: There is only one experience. What are the worldly experiences but those built up on the false `I'? Ask the most successful man of the world if he knows his Self. He will say "No". What can anyone know without knowing the Self? All worldly knowledge is built upon such a flimsy foundation.
Mr. Ramamurthi: How to know the `Real I' as distinct from the `false I'.
Maharshi: Is there anyone who is not aware of himself? Each one knows , but yet does not know, the Self. A strange paradox. The Master added later, "If the enquiry is made whether mind exists, it will be found that mind does not exist. That is control of mind. Otherwise, if the mind is taken to exist and one seeks to control it, it amounts to mind controlling the mind, just like a thief turning out to be a policeman to catch the thief, i.e., himself. Mind persists in that way alone, but eludes itself."
Talk 42 Talk 44
Talk 43.
Mr. S. Ranganathan, I.C.S., Collector of Vellore, Mr. S. V. Ramamurthi, I.C.S. and Mr. T. Raghaviah, late Diwan of Pudukottah State, visited the Asramam. Mr. Ranganathan asked, "Kindly instruct me as to how the mind may be controlled."
Maharshi: There are two methods. The one is to see what the mind is; then it subsides. The second is to fix your attention on something; then the mind remains quiet. The questioner repeated the question for further elucidation. The same answer was returned with a little more added. The questioner did not look satisfied.
Mr. Raghaviah: Men of the world that we are, we have some kind of grief or another and do not know how to get over it. We pray to God and still are not satisfied. What can we do?
Maharshi: Trust God.
D.: We surrender; but still there is no help.
Maharshi: Yes. If you have surrendered, you must be able to abide by the will of God and not make a grievance of what may not please you. Things may turn out differently from what they look apparently. Distress often leads men to faith in God.
D.: But we are worldly. There is the wife, there are the children, friends and relatives. We cannot ignore their existence and resign ourselves to Divine Will, without retaining some little of the personality in us.
Maharshi: That means you have not surrendered as professed by you. You must only trust God.
Mr. Ramamurthi: Swamiji, I have read Brunton's book A Search in Secret India, and was much impressed by the last chapter, where he says that it is possible to be conscious without thinking. I know that one can think, remaining forgetful of the physical body. Can one think without the mind? Is it possible to gain that consciousness which is beyond thoughts?
Maharshi: Yes. There is only one consciousness, which subsists in the waking , dream and sleep states. In sleep there is no `I'. The `I-thought' arises on waking and then the world appears. Where was this `I' in sleep? Was it there or was it not? It must have been there also, but not in the way that you feel now. The present is only the `I-thought', whereas the sleeping `I' is the real `I'. It subsists all through. It is consciousness. If it is known you will see that it is beyond thoughts.
D.: Can we think without the mind?
Maharshi: Thoughts may be like any other activities, not disturbing to the Supreme consciousness.
D.: Can one read others' minds?
The Master as usual told him to find his Self before worrying about others. "Where are others apart from one's own Self?" asked the Master.
Mr. Raghaviah: How shall we correlate the higher experience with the lower experience (meaning spiritual experience with mundane affairs)?
Maharshi: There is only one experience. What are the worldly experiences but those built up on the false `I'? Ask the most successful man of the world if he knows his Self. He will say "No". What can anyone know without knowing the Self? All worldly knowledge is built upon such a flimsy foundation.
Mr. Ramamurthi: How to know the `Real I' as distinct from the `false I'.
Maharshi: Is there anyone who is not aware of himself? Each one knows , but yet does not know, the Self. A strange paradox. The Master added later, "If the enquiry is made whether mind exists, it will be found that mind does not exist. That is control of mind. Otherwise, if the mind is taken to exist and one seeks to control it, it amounts to mind controlling the mind, just like a thief turning out to be a policeman to catch the thief, i.e., himself. Mind persists in that way alone, but eludes itself."
Talk 42 Talk 44
Talk 2
15th May, 1935
Talk 2.
Someone enquired about the nature of perception.
Maharshi: Whatever state one is in, the perceptions partake of that state.
The explanation is that in the waking state (jagrat [?]) the gross body perceives gross names and forms; in swapna (the dream state) the mental body perceives the mental creations in their manifold forms and names; in the sushupti [?] (deep dreamless sleep), the identification with the body being lost, there are no perceptions; similarly in the Transcendental state identity with Brahman places the man in harmony with everything, and there is nothing apart from his Self.
Talk 2.
Someone enquired about the nature of perception.
Maharshi: Whatever state one is in, the perceptions partake of that state.
The explanation is that in the waking state (jagrat [?]) the gross body perceives gross names and forms; in swapna (the dream state) the mental body perceives the mental creations in their manifold forms and names; in the sushupti [?] (deep dreamless sleep), the identification with the body being lost, there are no perceptions; similarly in the Transcendental state identity with Brahman places the man in harmony with everything, and there is nothing apart from his Self.
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