Talk 150

28th January, 1936

Talk 150.

Mrs. and Mr. Kelly, an elderly couple from America, and others of their company desired to know what they should do to gain concentration in face of discomforts of sitting and the sting of mosquitoes, etc.
Maharshi.: The discomforts will not worry you if your concentration is right.

Do not mind the discomforts. Keep your mind steady in meditation. If you have not the strength and endurance to bear mosquito stings how do you hope to gain realisation of the Self?

Realisation must be amidst all the turmoils of life. If you make yourself comfortable and go to bed you fall asleep. Face the troubles but keep yourself steady in meditation.

Talk 67

21st July, 1935
Talk 67.

A visitor, Mr. K. S. N. Iyer of the South Indian Railway, said, "There is a trifling halting-place in my meditation. When I ask myself, `Who am I?' my reasoning proceeds as follows; I see my hand. Who sees it? My eye. How to see the eye? In a mirror. Similarly to see me, there must be a mirror. `Which is to supply the place of the mirror in me?' is my question."

Maharshi: Then why do you enquire, "Who am I??" Why do you say you are troubled and so on? You could as well remain quiet. Why do you rise out of your composure?
D.: Enquiring thus helps me to concentrate. Is concentration the only benefit?

Maharshi: What more do you want? Concentration is the thing. What makes you come out of your quiet?
D.: Because I am drawn out.

Maharshi: Enquiry of "Who am I?" means finding the source of `I'. When that is found, that which you seek is accomplished. (The gist of Sri Bhagavan's words seems to be that one should make a concerted effort and not give it up baffled, with a defeatist mentality.)

Talk 66 Talk 68

Talk 63

6th July, 1935
Talk 63.

A high officer asked: If juniors are promoted over oneself the mind is perturbed. Will the enquiry, `Who am I??' help the man to soothe the mind under such circumstances?

Maharshi: Yes. Quite so. The enquiry `Who am I?' turns the mind inward and makes it calm.
D.: I have faith in murti dhyana (worship of form). Will it not help me to gain jnana?

Maharshi: Surely it will. Upasana ^[?] helps concentration of mind. Then the mind is free from other thoughts and is full of the meditated form. The mind becomes it - and thus quite pure. Then think who is the worshipper. The answer is `I', i.e., the Self. So the Self is gained ultimately. The present difficulty is that the man thinks that he is the doer. But it is a mistake. It is the Higher Power which does everything and the man is only a tool. If he accepts that position he is free from troubles; otherwise he courts them. Take for instance, the figure in a gopuram ^[?] (temple tower), where it is made to appear to bear the burden of the tower on its shoulders. Its posture and look are a picture of great strain while bearing the very heavy burden of the tower. But think. The tower is built on the earth and it rests on its foundations. The figure (like Atlas bearing the earth) is a part of the tower, but is made to look as if it bore the tower. Is it not funny? So is the man who takes on himself the sense of doing. Then the Malayalam version of Ulladu Narpadu was read out by a devotee for the benefit of the visitor. After hearing it, he asked: What about the reference to duality in practice and unity at the end?


Maharshi: Some people think that one must begin practice with dualistic idea.
It refers to them. They say that there is God; the man must worship and meditate; ultimately the jiva ^[?] merges into God. Others say that the Supreme Being and the jiva are always apart and never merge into each other. Howsoever it may be at the end, let us not trouble ourselves about it now. All are agreed that the jiva IS. Let the man find out the jiva, i.e., his Self. Then there will be time to find out if the Self should merge in the Supreme, is a part thereof, or remains different from it. Let us not forestall the conclusion. Keep an open mind, dive within and find out the Self. The truth will itself dawn upon you. Why should you determine beforehand if the finality is unity absolute or qualified, or duality? There is no meaning in it. The ascertainment is now made by logic and by intellect. The intellect derives light from the Self (the Higher Power). How can the reflected and partial light of the intellect envisage the whole and the original Light? The intellect cannot reach the Self and how can it ascertain its nature? Such is the significance of the reference.
D.: One of the stanzas says that the scriptures so scrupulously studied in the earlier stages are ultimately of no use. At what stage do they become useless?

Maharshi: When their essence is realised. The scriptures are useful to indicate the existence of the Higher Power (the Self) and the way to gain it. Their essence is that much only. When that is assimilated the rest is useless. But they are voluminous, adapted to the development of the seeker. As one rising up in the scale finds the regions one has passed to be only steps to the higher stage, and so on, the steps ascended become purvapaksha successively until the goal is gained. When the goal is reached it remains alone, and all the rest becomes useless. That is how the sastras become useless. We read so much. Do we remember all that we read? But have we forgotten the essentials? The essential soaks in the mind and the rest is forgotten. So it is with the sastras. The fact is that the man considers himself limited and there arises the trouble. The idea is wrong. He can see it for himself. In sleep there was no world, no ego (no limited self), and no trouble. Something wakes up from that happy state and says `I'. To that ego the world appears. Being a speck in the world he wants more and gets into trouble. How happy he was before the rising of the ego! Only the rise of the ego is the cause of the present trouble. Let him trace the ego to its source and he will reach that undifferentiated happy state which is sleepless sleep. The Self remains ever the same, here and now. There is nothing more to be gained. Because the limitations have wrongly been assumed there is the need to transcend them.

TENTH MAN: It is like the ten ignorant fools who forded a stream and on reaching the other shore counted themselves to be nine only. They grew anxious and grieved over the loss of the unknown tenth man. A wayfarer, on ascertaining the cause of their grief, counted them all and found them to be ten. But each one of them had counted the others leaving himself out. The wayfarer gave each in succession a blow telling them to count the blows. They counted ten and were satisfied. The moral is that the tenth man was not got anew. He was all along there, but ignorance caused grief to all of them.

LOST NECKLACE: Again, a woman wore a necklace round her neck but forgot it. She began to search for it and made enquiries. A friend of hers, finding out what she was looking for, pointed out the necklace round the seeker's neck. She felt it with her hands and was happy. Did she get the necklace anew? Here again ignorance caused grief and knowledge happiness. Similarly also with the man and the Self. There is nothing to be gained anew. Ignorance of the Self is the cause of the present misery; knowledge of the Self brings about happiness.

Moreover, if anything is to be got anew it implies its previous absence. What remained once absent might vanish again. So there would be no permanency in salvation. Salvation is permanent because the Self is here and now and eternal. Thus the man's efforts are directed towards the removal of ignorance. Wisdom seems to dawn, though it is natural and ever present. The visitor, while taking leave, saluted the master, and said, "It is said that the victim in the tiger's mouth is gone for ever." The reference is to a passage in Who am I? where it is stated that a disciple can never revert to the world after he has once fallen into the field of the Guru's gracious look as surely as the prey in the tiger's jaws cannot escape.

(Photo of Bhagavan is copyright Sri Ramanasramam)
Talk 62 Talk 64

Talk 61

6th July, 1935
Talk 61.

Mr. Ekanatha Rao: How is dhyana ^[?] practised - with eyes open or closed?

Maharshi: It may be done either way. The point is that the mind must be introverted and kept active in its pursuit. Sometimes it happens that when the eyes are closed the latent thoughts rush forth with great vigour. It may also be difficult to introvert the mind with the eyes open. It requires strength of mind to do so. The mind is contaminated when it takes in objects. Otherwise, it is pure. The main factor in dhyana is to keep the mind active in its own pursuit without taking in external impressions or thinking of other matters.

Talk 60 Talk 62

Talk 56

22nd June, 1935
Talk 56.

A youth of twenty asked how to realise the Self. He sat down in silence and waited more than an hour and then was about to leave. While doing so, he asked:
D.: How to realise Self?

Maharshi: Whose Self? Find out.
D.: Who am I??

Maharshi: Find it yourself.
D.: I do not know.

Maharshi: Think. Who is it that says "I do not know"? What is not known?
In that statement, who is the `I'?
D.: Somebody in me.

Maharshi: Who is the somebody? In whom?
D.: Maybe some power.

Maharshi: Find it.
D.: How to realise Brahman?

Maharshi: Without knowing the Self why do you seek to know Brahman?
D.: The sastras say Brahman pervades all and me too.

Maharshi: Find the `I' in me and then there will be time to think of Brahman.
D.: Why was I born?

Maharshi: Who was born? The answer is the same for all of your questions.
D.: Who am I then?

Maharshi: (Smiling) Have you come to examine me and ask me? You must say who you are.
D.: In deep sleep the soul leaves the body and remains elsewhere.
When it re-enters I awake. Is it so?

Maharshi: What is it that leaves the body?
D.: The power, perhaps.

Maharshi: Find out the power.
D.: The body is composed of five elements. What are the elements?

Maharshi: Without knowing the Self how do you aim at knowing the elements?
The young man sat awhile and left with permission. The Master remarked later: "All right. It will work."

Talk 55 Talk 57

Talk 52

9th June, 1935
Talk 52.

A man from Cocanada asked: "My mind remains clear for two or three days and turns dull for the next two or three days; and so it alternates. What is it due to?"

Maharshi: It is quite natural; it is the play of brightness (satva), activity (rajas ^[?])
and darkness (tamas ^[?]) alternating. Do not regret the tamas; but when satva comes into play, hold on to it fast and make the best of it.
D.: What is the Heart?

Maharshi: It is the seat (if such could be said of it) of the Self.
D.: Is it the physical heart?

Maharshi: No. It is the seat wherefrom `I-I' arises.
D.: What becomes of the jiva ^[?] after death?

Maharshi: The question is not appropriate for a jiva now living. A
disembodied jiva may ask me, if convenient. In the meantime let the embodied jiva solve its present problem and find who he is. There will be an end of such doubts.
D.: What is dhyana ^[?]?

Maharshi: The word dhyana usually signifies meditation on some object , whereas nididhyasana ^[?] is used for enquiry into the Self. The triads persist until the Self is realised. Dhyana ^[?] and nididhyasana are the same so far as the aspirant is concerned, because they involve trinity and are synonymous with bhakti ^[?].
D.: How should dhyana be practised?

Maharshi: Dhyana serves to concentrate the mind. The predominant idea keeps off all others. Dhyana varies according to the individual. It may be on an aspect of God, on a mantra ^[?], or on the Self, etc.

Talk 51 Talk 53

Talk 49

24th April, 1935
Talk 49.

Some men asked the Master questions which ultimately resolved themselves into one, that `I' is not perceptible however much they might struggle.
The Master's reply was in the usual strain: "Who is it that says that `I' is not perceptible? Is there an `I' ignorant, and an `I' elusive? Are there two `I's in the same person? Ask yourself these questions. It is the mind which says that `I' is not perceptible. Where is that mind from? Know the mind. You will find it a myth. King Janaka said, `I have discovered the thief who had been ruining me so long. I will now deal with him summarily. Then I shall be happy.' Similarly it will be with others."
D.: How to know the `I'?

Maharshi: The `I-I' is always there. There is no knowing it. It is not a new knowledge acquired. What is new and not here and now will be evanescent only. The `I' is always there. There is obstruction to its knowledge and it is called ignorance. Remove the ignorance and knowledge shines forth. In fact this ignorance or even knowledge is not for Atman. They are only overgrowths to be cleared off. That is why Atman is said to be beyond knowledge and ignorance. It remains as it naturally is - that is all.
D.: There is no perceptible progress in spite of our attempts.

Maharshi: Progress can be spoken of in things to be obtained afresh. Whereas here it is the removal of ignorance and not acquisition of knowledge. What kind of progress can be expected in the quest for the Self?
D.: How to remove the ignorance?

Maharshi: While lying in bed in Tiruvannamalai you dream in your sleep that you find yourself in another town. The scene is real to you. Your body remains here on your bed in a room. Can a town enter your room, or could you have left this place and gone elsewhere, leaving the body here? Both are impossible. Therefore your being here and seeing another town are both unreal. They appear real to the mind. The `I' of the dream soon vanishes, then another `I' speaks of the dream. This `I' was not in the dream. Both the `I's are unreal. There is the substratum of the mind which continues all along, giving rise to so many scenes. An `I' rises forth with every thought and with its disappearance that `I' disappears too. Many `I's are born and die every moment. The subsisting mind is the real trouble. That is the thief according to Janaka. Find him out and you will be happy.

Talk 48 Talk 50

Talk 44

3rd April, 1935
Talk 44.

Mr. Ekanath Rao, an Engineer, asked Sri Bhagavan if solitude is necessary for vichara.

Maharshi: There is solitude everywhere. The individual is solitary always.
His business is to find it out within, and not seek it without.
D.: The work-a-day world is distracting.

Maharshi: Do not allow yourself to be distracted. Enquire for whom there is distraction. It will not afflict you after a little practice.
D.: Even the attempt is impossible.

Maharshi: Make it and it will be found not so difficult.
D.: But the answer does not come for the search inward.

Maharshi: The enquirer is the answer and no other answer can come. What comes afresh cannot be true. What always is, is true.

Talk 43 Talk 45

Talk 41

22nd September, 1936
Talk 41.

D.: Are there heaven (swarga) and hell (naraka) ?
Maharshi: There must be someone to go there. They are like dreams. We see time and space exist in dream also. Which is true, dream or wakefulness?
D.: So we must rid ourselves of lust (kama ^[?]), anger, (krodha ), etc.

Maharshi: Give up thoughts. You need not give up anything else. You must be there to see anything. It is the Self. Self is ever-conscious.

D.: Are pilgrimages, etc., good?
Maharshi: Yes.

D.: What effort is necessary for reaching the Self?
Maharshi: `I' should be destroyed. Self is not to be reached. Is there any moment when Self is not? It is not new. Be as you are. What is new cannot be permanent. What is real must always exist.

D.: What is sacrifice through wisdom (jnana yajna) or other sacrifices?

Maharshi: Other disciplines exist for it. Practice is for gaining wisdom (jnana).
D.: Are jivanmuktas (living liberated souls) of different kinds?

Maharshi: What does it matter if they differ externally? There is no difference in their wisdom (jnana).

D.: When loyal to one Master can you respect others?
Maharshi: Guru is only one. He is not physical. So long as there is weakness the support of strength is needed.
D.: J. Krishnamurti says, "No Guru is necessary?"
Maharshi: How did he know it? One can say so after realising but not before.

D.: You have gained this state by great effort. What shall we poor souls do?

Maharshi: We are in our Self. We are not in the world.

D.: Heaven and hell - what are they?
Maharshi: You carry heaven and hell with you. Your lust, anger, etc., produce these regions. They are like dreams.

D.: The Gita says that if a man fixes his attention between the eyebrows and holds his breath he reaches the Supreme state. How is that done?
Maharshi: You are always in the Self and there is no reaching it. The eyebrow is only a place where attention is to be fixed (seat of meditation - upasanasthana).

D.: You have spoken of the Heart as the seat of meditation?
Maharshi: Yes, it is also that.
D.: What is Heart?
Maharshi: It is the centre of the Self. The Self is the centre of centres. The Heart represents the psychic centre and not the physical centre.

D.: The term `jnana' is realised Wisdom. The same term is used for the method also. Why?
Maharshi: `Jnana' includes the method also because it ultimately results in realisation.
D.: Is a man to engage in teaching his knowledge however imperfect?

Maharshi: If his prarabdha ^[?] be that way.

In the seventh chapter, Arjuna asks if Karma is a method (sadhana ^[?]). Krishna answers that it is so if done without the sense of doership. So also are Karmas approved by scriptures which deny Karma. The Karma disapproved by them is that which is done with the sense of doership. Do not leave Karma. You cannot do so. Give up the sense of doership. Karma will go on automatically. Or Karma will drop away from you. If Karma be your lot according to prarabdha, it will surely be done whether you will it or not; if Karma be not your lot, it will not be done even if you intently engage in it. Janaka, Suka, etc., were also in work without ahankara ^[?], Karma may be done for fame, or may be done unselfishly and for the public good. Yet even then they want applause. So it is really selfish.
D.: What is that one thing, knowing which all doubts are solved?

Maharshi: Know the doubter. If the doubter be held, the doubts will not arise. Here the doubter is transcendent. Again when the doubter ceases to exist, there will be no doubts arising. From where will they arise? All are jnanis, jivanmuktas. Only they are not aware of the fact. Doubts must be uprooted. This means that the doubter must be uprooted. Here the doubter is the mind.
D.: What is the method?

Maharshi: `Who am I??' is the investigation.
D.: May we perform japa ^[?]?

Maharshi: Why should you think I am this? Investigate and the thoughts cease. What is, namely the Self, will be revealed as the inescapable residue.
D.: Is hatha yoga ^[?] necessary?

Maharshi: It is one of the aids - not that it is always necessary. It depends upon the person. Vichara ^[?] surpasses pranayama ^[?]. In Yoga Vasishta Chudala advises investigation (vichara ^[?]) to Sikhidvaja for killing the ego. Reality can be reached by holding on to prana ^[?] or intellect. Hatha
yoga ^[?] is the former; Vichara is the latter.
D.: Is there any individuality for the Jnani ^[?] after Realization?

Maharshi: How can he retain individuality?
Even ordinarily the elders advise achamana ^[?] and pranayama before undertaking any work - be it worldly or other-worldly. That means, concentration of mind accomplishes the work.

D.: I meditate neti-neti (not this - not this).

Maharshi: No - that is not meditation. Find the source. You must reach the source without fail. The false `I' will disappear and the real `I' will be realised. The former cannot exist apart from the latter.

Talk 40 Talk 42