Talk 143

23rd January, 1936
Talk 143.

Mr. P. Brunton asked Sri Bhagavan if the Hill here is hollow.

The puranas say so. When it is said that the Heart is a cavity , penetration into it proves it to be an expanse of light. Similarly the Hill is one of light. The caves, etc., are covered up by the Light.
D.: Are there caves inside?

In visions I have seen caves, cities with streets, etc., and a whole world in it.
D.: Are there Siddhas too in it?

All the Siddhas are reputed to be there.
D.: Are there only Siddhas or others also?

Just like this world.
D.: Siddhas are said to be in the Himalayas.

Kailas is on the Himalayas: it is the abode of Siva. Whereas this Hill is Siva Himself. All the paraphernalia of His abode must also be where He Himself is.
D.: Does Bhagavan believe that the Hill is hollow, etc.?

Everything depends on the viewpoint of the individual. You yourself have seen hermitages, etc., on this Hill in a vision. You have described such in your book.
D.: Yes. It was on the surface of the Hill. The vision was within me.

That is exactly so. Everything is within one's Self. To see the world, there must be a spectator. There could be no world without the Self. The Self is all-comprising. In fact Self is all. There is nothing besides the Self.
D.: What is the mystery of this Hill?

Just as you have said in Secret Egypt, "The mystery of the pyramid is the mystery of the Self," so also the mystery of this Hill is the mystery of the Self.
Maj. Chadwick: I do not know if the Self is different from the ego.

How were you in your deep sleep?
D.: I do not know.

Who does not know? Is it not the waking Self? Do you deny your existence in your deep sleep?
D.: I was and I am; but I do not know who was in deep sleep.

Exactly. The man awake says that he did not know anything in the state of sleep. Now he sees the objects and knows that he is there; whereas in deep sleep there were no objects, no spectator, etc.
The same one who is now speaking was in deep sleep also. What is the difference between these two states? There are objects and play of senses now which were not in sleep. A new entity, the ego, has risen up in the meantime, it plays through the senses, sees the objects, confounds itself with the body and says that the Self is the ego. In reality, what was in deep sleep continues to exist now too. The Self is changeless. It is the ego that has come between. That which rises and sets is the ego; that which remains changeless is the Self.

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