Talk 99
19th November, 1935
Talk 99.
A sannyasi asked: It is said that the Self is beyond the mind and yet the realisation is with the mind. Mano na manute, Manasa na matam, and Manasaivedamaptavyam (The mind cannot think it. It cannot be thought of by the mind and the mind alone can realise it). How are these contradictions to be reconciled?
Maharshi: Atman is realised with mruta manas (dead mind), i.e., mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind sees its own source and becomes That. It is not as the subject perceiving an object. When the room is dark a lamp is necessary to illumine and eyes to cognise objects. But when the sun is risen there is no need of a lamp, and the objects are seen; and to see the sun no lamp is necessary, it is enough that you turn your eyes towards the self- luminous sun. Similarly with the mind. To see the objects the reflected light of the mind is necessary. To see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it. Then the mind loses itself and the Heart shines forth.
Talk 98 Talk 100
Talk 98
19th November, 1935
Talk 98.
Bhagavan further explained: The Self is the Heart. The Heart is self-luminous. Light arises from the Heart and reaches the brain, which is the seat of the mind. The world is seen with the mind, that is, by the reflected light of the Self. It is perceived with the aid of the mind. When the mind is illumined it is aware of the world. When it is not itself so illumined, it is not aware of the world. If the mind is turned in towards the source of light, objective knowledge ceases and Self alone shines forth as the Heart.
The moon shines by the reflected light of the sun. When the sun has set, the moon is useful for revealing objects. When the sun has risen, no one needs the moon, although the pale disc of the moon is visible in the sky.
So it is with the mind and the Heart. The mind is useful because of its reflected light. It is used for seeing objects. When it is turned inwards, the source of illumination shines forth by itself, and the mind remains dim and useless like the moon in day-time.
Talk 97 Talk 99
Talk 98.
Bhagavan further explained: The Self is the Heart. The Heart is self-luminous. Light arises from the Heart and reaches the brain, which is the seat of the mind. The world is seen with the mind, that is, by the reflected light of the Self. It is perceived with the aid of the mind. When the mind is illumined it is aware of the world. When it is not itself so illumined, it is not aware of the world. If the mind is turned in towards the source of light, objective knowledge ceases and Self alone shines forth as the Heart.
The moon shines by the reflected light of the sun. When the sun has set, the moon is useful for revealing objects. When the sun has risen, no one needs the moon, although the pale disc of the moon is visible in the sky.
So it is with the mind and the Heart. The mind is useful because of its reflected light. It is used for seeing objects. When it is turned inwards, the source of illumination shines forth by itself, and the mind remains dim and useless like the moon in day-time.
Talk 97 Talk 99
Talk 97
19th November, 1935
Talk 97.
One Mr. Ramachandar, a gentleman from Ambala, asked where the Heart is and what Realisation is.
Maharshi: The Heart is not physical; it is spiritual. Hridayam = hrit + ayam
- This is the centre. It is that from which thoughts arise, on which they subsist and where they are resolved. The thoughts are the content of the mind and, they shape the universe. The Heart is the centre of all.
Yatova imani bhutani jayante (that from which these beings come into existence) etc. is said to be Brahman in the Upanishads. That is the Heart. Brahman is the Heart.
D.: How to realise the Heart?
Maharshi: There is no one who even for a trice fails to experience the Self.
For no one admits that he ever stands apart from the Self. He is the Self. The Self is the Heart.
D.: It is not clear.
Maharshi: In deep sleep you exist; awake, you remain. The same Self is in both states. The difference is only in the awareness and the non- awareness of the world. The world rises with the mind and sets with the mind. That which rises and sets is not the Self. The Self is different, giving rise to the mind, sustaining it and resolving it. So the Self is the underlying principle. When asked who you are, you place your hand on the right side of the breast and say `I am'. There you involuntarily point out the Self. The Self is thus known. But the individual is miserable because he confounds the mind and the body with the Self. This confusion is due to wrong knowledge. Elimination of wrong knowledge is alone needed. Such elimination results in Realisation.
D.: How to control the mind?
Maharshi: What is mind? Whose is the mind?
D.: Mind always wanders. I cannot control it.
Maharshi: It is the nature of the mind to wander. You are not the mind. The mind springs up and sinks down. It is impermanent, transitory, whereas you are eternal. There is nothing but the Self. To inhere in the Self is the thing. Never mind the mind. If its source is sought, it will vanish leaving the Self unaffected.
D.: So one need not seek to control the mind?
Maharshi: There is no mind to control if you realise the Self. The mind vanishing, the Self shines forth. In the realised man the mind may be active or inactive, the Self alone remains for him. For the mind, the body and the world are not separate from the Self. They rise from and sink into the Self. They do not remain apart from the Self. Can they be different from the Self? Only be aware of the Self. Why worry about these shadows? How do they affect the Self?
Talk 96 Talk 98
Talk 96
13th November, 1935
Talk 96.
Maj. A. W. Chadwick: Of what nature is the realisation of Westerners who relate that they have had flashes of cosmic consciousness?
Maharshi: It came as a flash and disappeared as such. That which has a beginning must also end. Only when the ever-present consciousness is realised will it be permanent. Consciousness is indeed always with us. Everyone knows `I am!' No one can deny his own being. The man in deep slumber is not aware; while awake he seems to be aware. But it is the same person. There is no change in the one who slept and the one who is now awake. In deep sleep he was not aware of his body; there was no body-consciousness. In the wakeful state he is aware of his body; there is body-consciousness. Therefore the difference lies in the emergence of body-consciousness and not in any change in the Real Consciousness. The body and body-consciousness arise together and sink together. All this amounts to saying that there are no limitations in deep sleep, whereas there are limitations in the waking state. These limitations are the bondage; the feeling `The body is I' is the error. This false sense of `I' must go. The real `I' is always there. It is here and now. It never appears anew and disappears again. That which is must also persist for ever. That which appears anew will also be lost. Compare deep sleep and waking. The body appears in one state but not in the other. Therefore the body will be lost. The consciousness was pre-existent and will survive the body. In fact, there is no one who does not say `I am'. The wrong knowledge of `I am the body' is the cause of all the mischief. This wrong knowledge must go. That is Realisation. Realisation is not acquisition of anything new nor it is a new faculty. It is only removal of all camouflage.
Maj. Chadwick: I try to shake off the body.
Maharshi: A man shakes off his clothes and remains alone and free. The Self is unlimited and is not confined to the body. How can the body be shaken off? Where will he leave it? Wherever it is, it is his still.
Maj. Chadwick: (Laughter.)
Maharshi: The ultimate Truth is so simple. It is nothing more than being in the pristine state. This is all that need be said. Still, it is a wonder that to teach this simple Truth there should come into being so many religions, creeds, methods and disputes among them and so on! Oh the pity! Oh the pity!
Maj. Chadwick: But people will not be content with simplicity; they want complexity.
Maharshi: Quite so. Because they want something elaborate and attractive and puzzling, so many religions have come into existence and each of them is so complex and each creed in each religion has its own adherents and antagonists. For example, an ordinary Christian will not be satisfied unless he is told that God is somewhere in the far-off Heavens not to be reached by us unaided. Christ alone knew Him and Christ alone can guide us. Worship Christ and be saved. If told the simple truth - "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" - he is not satisfied and will read complex and far-fetched meanings in such statements. Mature minds alone can grasp the simple Truth in all its nakedness.
Maj. Chadwick later expressed a certain involuntary fear while meditating. He feels the spirit separated from the gross body and the sensation creates a fright.
Maharshi: To whom is the fright? It is all due to the habit of identifying the body with the Self. Repeated experience of separation will make one familiar and the fright will cease.
Talk 95 Talk 97
Talk 96.
Maj. A. W. Chadwick: Of what nature is the realisation of Westerners who relate that they have had flashes of cosmic consciousness?
Maharshi: It came as a flash and disappeared as such. That which has a beginning must also end. Only when the ever-present consciousness is realised will it be permanent. Consciousness is indeed always with us. Everyone knows `I am!' No one can deny his own being. The man in deep slumber is not aware; while awake he seems to be aware. But it is the same person. There is no change in the one who slept and the one who is now awake. In deep sleep he was not aware of his body; there was no body-consciousness. In the wakeful state he is aware of his body; there is body-consciousness. Therefore the difference lies in the emergence of body-consciousness and not in any change in the Real Consciousness. The body and body-consciousness arise together and sink together. All this amounts to saying that there are no limitations in deep sleep, whereas there are limitations in the waking state. These limitations are the bondage; the feeling `The body is I' is the error. This false sense of `I' must go. The real `I' is always there. It is here and now. It never appears anew and disappears again. That which is must also persist for ever. That which appears anew will also be lost. Compare deep sleep and waking. The body appears in one state but not in the other. Therefore the body will be lost. The consciousness was pre-existent and will survive the body. In fact, there is no one who does not say `I am'. The wrong knowledge of `I am the body' is the cause of all the mischief. This wrong knowledge must go. That is Realisation. Realisation is not acquisition of anything new nor it is a new faculty. It is only removal of all camouflage.
Maj. Chadwick: I try to shake off the body.
Maharshi: A man shakes off his clothes and remains alone and free. The Self is unlimited and is not confined to the body. How can the body be shaken off? Where will he leave it? Wherever it is, it is his still.
Maj. Chadwick: (Laughter.)
Maharshi: The ultimate Truth is so simple. It is nothing more than being in the pristine state. This is all that need be said. Still, it is a wonder that to teach this simple Truth there should come into being so many religions, creeds, methods and disputes among them and so on! Oh the pity! Oh the pity!
Maj. Chadwick: But people will not be content with simplicity; they want complexity.
Maharshi: Quite so. Because they want something elaborate and attractive and puzzling, so many religions have come into existence and each of them is so complex and each creed in each religion has its own adherents and antagonists. For example, an ordinary Christian will not be satisfied unless he is told that God is somewhere in the far-off Heavens not to be reached by us unaided. Christ alone knew Him and Christ alone can guide us. Worship Christ and be saved. If told the simple truth - "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" - he is not satisfied and will read complex and far-fetched meanings in such statements. Mature minds alone can grasp the simple Truth in all its nakedness.
Maj. Chadwick later expressed a certain involuntary fear while meditating. He feels the spirit separated from the gross body and the sensation creates a fright.
Maharshi: To whom is the fright? It is all due to the habit of identifying the body with the Self. Repeated experience of separation will make one familiar and the fright will cease.
Talk 95 Talk 97
Talk 95
13th November, 1935
Talk 95.
A question was raised as follows by Maj. A. W. Chadwick:-
Mr. Edward Carpenter, a certain mystic, has written in a book that he had Self-Realisation on some occasions and that its effects lasted sometimes afterwards, only to be gradually lost. Whereas Sri Ramana Gita says, "Granthi [?] (knot = bondage), snapped once, is snapped for ever." In the case of this mystic, the bondage seems to have persisted even after Self-Realisation. How can it be so?
The Master cited Kaivalya [?] as follows:-
The disciple, after realising the all-shining, unitary, unbroken state of Being-Knowledge-Bliss, surrendered himself to the master and humbly prayed to know how he could repay the master's Grace. The Master said: "My reward consists in your permanent unbroken Bliss. Do not slip away from it."
D.: Having once experienced the Supreme Bliss, how can one stray away from it?
Maharshi: Oh yes! It happens. The predisposition adhering to him from time immemorial will draw him out and so ignorance overtakes him.
D.: What are the obstacles to remaining steady in unbroken Bliss?
How can they be overcome?
Maharshi: The obstacles are:
(1) Ignorance which is forgetfulness of one's pure being. (2) Doubt which consists in wondering if even the experience was of the Real or of the unreal. (3) Error which consists in the "I-am-the-body" idea, and thinking that the world is real. These are overcome by hearing the truth, reflection on it and concentration.
The Master continued: Experience is said to be temporary or permanent. The first experience is temporary and by concentration it can become permanent. In the former the bondage is not completely destroyed; it remains subtle and reasserts itself in due course. But in the latter it is destroyed root and branch, never to appear again. The expression yogabhrashta [?] (those who have fallen down from yoga) in Srimad Bhagavad Gita refers to the former class of men.
D.: Is then hearing the Truth meant only for a limited few?
Maharshi: It is of two kinds. The ordinary one is to hear it enunciated and explained by a master. However, the right one is to raise the question for oneself and seek and find the answer in oneself as the unbroken `I-I'. To be reflecting on this experience is the second stage. To remain one-pointed in it is the third stage.
D.: Can the temporary experience be called samadhi?
Maharshi: No. It forms part of the third stage.
D.: It looks then as if even hearing the Truth is limited to a very few.
Maharshi: The seekers fall into two classes; kritopasaka [?] and akritopasaka [?].
The former having already overcome his predisposition by steady devotion, his mind thus made pure, has had some kind of experience but does not comprehend it; as soon as he is instructed by a competent master, permanent experience results. The other class of seeker needs great effort to achieve this end. How will the hearing of the Truth, reflection and concentration help him? They comprise upasana [?] (the nearest approach to Truth) and will end in his Self-Realization. The fourth stage is the final one of liberation. Even there some distinction is made according to the degree, as
(1) the knower of the Brahman (Brahmavid [?]) (2) Brahmavid-vara (3) Brahmavid-varya (4) Brahmavid-varishta But all of them are in fact liberated even while alive.
Talk 94 Talk 96
Talk 94
9th November, 1935
Talk 94.
A man prayed to the Master to pardon his sins. He was told that it would be enough if he took care to see that his mind did not trouble him.
Talk 93 Talk 95
Talk 93
9th November, 1935
Talk 93.
All are aware of their own Self only. Wonder of wonders! They take what is not as what is, or they see the phenomena apart from the Self. Only so long as there is the knower is there knowledge of all kinds (direct, inferential, intellectual etc.); should the knower vanish they all vanish together with him; their validity is of the same degree as his.
Talk 92 Talk 94
Talk 92
7th November, 1935
Talk 92.
A visitor said: Some say that one should practise meditation on gross objects only: it may be disastrous if one constantly seeks to kill the mind.
Maharshi: For whom is it disastrous? Can there be disaster apart from the Self?
Unbroken `I-I' is the ocean infinite, the ego, `I' thought, remains only a bubble on it and is called jiva [?], i.e., individual soul. The bubble too is water; when it bursts it only mixes in the ocean. When it remains a bubble it is still a part of the ocean. Ignorant of this simple truth, innumerable methods under different denominations, such as yoga, bhakti [?], karma……. each again with many modifications, are being taught with great skill and in intricate detail only to entice the seekers and confuse their minds. So also are the religions and sects and dogmas. What are they all for? Only for knowing the Self. They are aids and practices required for knowing the Self.
Objects perceived by the senses are spoken of as immediate knowledge (pratyaksha [?]). Can anything be as direct as the Self - always experienced without the aid of the senses? Sense-perceptions can only be indirect knowledge, and not direct knowledge. Only one's own awareness is direct knowledge, as is the common experience of one and all. No aids are needed to know one's own Self, i.e., to be aware. The one Infinite Unbroken Whole (plenum) becomes aware of itself as `I'. This is its original name. All other names, e.g., OM, are later growths. Liberation is only to remain aware of the Self. The mahavakya "I am Brahman [?]" is its authority. Though the `I' is always experienced, yet one's attention has to be drawn to it. Only then does knowledge dawn. Thus the need for the instruction of the Upanishads and of wise sages.
Talk 91 Talk 93
Talk 91
6th November, 1935
Talk 91.
A Bengali visitor asked: How is the mind controlled?
Maharshi: What do you call `the mind'?
D.: When I sit down to think of God, thoughts wander away to other objects. I want to control those thoughts.
Maharshi: In the Bhagavad Gita it is said that it is the nature of the mind to wander. One must bring one's thoughts to bear on God. By long practice the mind is controlled and made steady. The wavering of the mind is a weakness arising from the dissipation of its energy in the shape of thoughts. When one makes the mind stick to one thought the energy is conserved, and the mind becomes stronger.
D.: What is the meaning of the strength of the mind?
Maharshi: Its ability to concentrate on one thought without being distracted.
D.: How is that achieved?
Maharshi: By practice. A devotee concentrates on God; a seeker, follower of the jnana-marga, seeks the Self. The practice is equally difficult for both.
D.: Even if the mind is brought to bear on the search for the Self , after a long struggle the mind begins to elude him and the man is not aware of the mischief until after some time.
Maharshi: So it would be. In the earlier stages the mind reverts to the search at long intervals; with continued practice it reverts at shorter intervals until finally it does not wander at all. It is then that the dormant sakti [?] manifests.
The satvic mind is free from thoughts whereas the rajasic mind is full of them. The satvic mind resolves itself into the Life-current.
D.: Can one keep the mind away from entering into the phase of thoughts before one experiences the current?
Maharshi: Yes; the current is pre-existent.
Talk 90 Talk 92
Talk 90
6th November, 1935
Talk 90.
The Holy Spirit depicted as a dove in the stained glass window behind the Cathedra Petri in St. Peter's Basilica, Rome.
Again, the Trinity was explained:
God the Father represents Isvara God the Holy Spirit represents Atman God the Son represents Guru Isvaro gururatmeti murti bheda vibhagine vyomavad vyapta dehaya dakshinamurtaye namah:
Meaning that God appears to his devotee in the form of a Guru (son of God) and points out to him the immanence of the Holy Spirit. That is to say that God is spirit, that this spirit is immanent everywhere and that the Self must be realised, which is the same as realising God.
Talk 89 Talk 91
Talk 90.
The Holy Spirit depicted as a dove in the stained glass window behind the Cathedra Petri in St. Peter's Basilica, Rome. Again, the Trinity was explained:
God the Father represents Isvara God the Holy Spirit represents Atman God the Son represents Guru Isvaro gururatmeti murti bheda vibhagine vyomavad vyapta dehaya dakshinamurtaye namah:
Meaning that God appears to his devotee in the form of a Guru (son of God) and points out to him the immanence of the Holy Spirit. That is to say that God is spirit, that this spirit is immanent everywhere and that the Self must be realised, which is the same as realising God.
Talk 89 Talk 91
Talk 89
6th November, 1935
Talk 89.
Maharshi: Karpura arati [?] is symbolic of the burning away of the mind by the light of illumination, vibhuti [?] (sacred ashes) is Siva (Absolute Being) and kumkuma (vermilion powder) is Sakti (consciousness). Vibhuti [?] is of two kinds: Para vibhuti [?] and apara vibhuti [?]. The sacred ashes are of the latter class. The para [?] is what remains over after all the dross has been burnt away by the Fire of Realisation. It is Absolute Being.
Talk 88 Talk 90
Talk 88
St. Paul, by El Greco (c. 1608)
6th November, 1935
Talk 88.
The same gentleman (Major Chadwick) asked: What is the significance of Christ in the illumination of St. Paul?
Maharshi: Illumination is absolute, not associated with forms. After St. Paul became Self-conscious he identified the illumination with Christ-consciousness.
D.: But Paul was not a lover of Christ then?
Maharshi: Love or hatred is immaterial. The thought of Christ was there. It is similar to Ravana's case. Christ-consciousness and Self-Realisation are all the same.
Talk 87 Talk 89
See Sayings of Jesus on the Cross | Conversion of St. Paul
Talk 87
Photo showing Major Chadwick seated next to Chinnaswami. Paul Brunton sitting on other side of calf in suit.6th November, 1935
Talk 87.
Major A. W. Chadwick, an ardent English devotee, asked, "Why did Jesus call out `My God! My God!' while being crucified?"
Photo shows "Crucifixion" by Diego Velasquez, 17th c.Maharshi: It might have been an intercession on behalf of the two thieves who were crucified with Him. Again, a Jnani [?] has attained liberation even while alive, here and now. It is immaterial as to how, where and when he leaves his body. Some jnanis may appear to suffer, others may be in samadhi, still others may disappear from sight before death.
But that makes no difference to their jnana. Such suffering is apparent only to the onlooker and not to the Jnani, for he has already transcended the mistaken identity of the Self with the body.
Talk 86 Talk 88 | See Major Chadwick | Major Chadwick Photos | Sayings of Jesus on the cross
Talk 86
Photo of "Sermon on the Mount" by Heinrich Bloch, 19th c.
6th November, 1935
Talk 86.
The Master gave the true significance of the Christian faith thus:
Christ is the ego. The Cross is the body. When the ego is crucified, and it perishes, what survives is the Absolute Being (God), (cf. "I and my Father are one") and this glorious survival is called Resurrection.
Talk 85 Talk 87
Talk 85
16th October, 1935
Talk 85.
The same gentleman asked the Master about the material relation between memory and will and their relation to the mind.
Maharshi: They are functions of the mind. The mind is the outcome of the ego and the ego is from the Self.
Talk 84 Talk 86
Talk 85.
The same gentleman asked the Master about the material relation between memory and will and their relation to the mind.
Maharshi: They are functions of the mind. The mind is the outcome of the ego and the ego is from the Self.
Talk 84 Talk 86
Talk 84
16th October, 1935
Talk 84.
Mr. Grant Duff asked the Master if any mongoose had had anything to do with him. The Master said, "Yes. It was the occasion of Ardra and Jayanti, I was living up the hill in Skandasramam. Streams of visitors were climbing up the hill from the town. A mongoose, larger than the ordinary size, of golden hue (not grey as a mongoose is), with no black spot on its tail as is usual with the wild mongoose, passed these crowds fearlessly. People took it to be a tame one belonging to someone in the crowd. The animal went straight to Palaniswami, who was having a bath in the spring by the Virupaksha Cave. He stroked the creature and patted it. It followed him into the cave, inspected every nook and corner and left the place and joined the crowd to pass up to Skandasramam.
I noticed it. Everyone was struck by its attractive appearance and its fearless movements. It came up to me, got on my lap and rested there some time. Then it raised itself up, looked about and moved down; it went round the whole place and I followed it lest it should be harmed by the unwary visitors or by the peacocks. Two peacocks of the place looked at it inquisitively, whereas the mongoose moved nonchalantly from place to place and finally disappeared into the rocks on the south-east of the Asramam."
Talk 83 Talk 85
Talk 84.
Mr. Grant Duff asked the Master if any mongoose had had anything to do with him. The Master said, "Yes. It was the occasion of Ardra and Jayanti, I was living up the hill in Skandasramam. Streams of visitors were climbing up the hill from the town. A mongoose, larger than the ordinary size, of golden hue (not grey as a mongoose is), with no black spot on its tail as is usual with the wild mongoose, passed these crowds fearlessly. People took it to be a tame one belonging to someone in the crowd. The animal went straight to Palaniswami, who was having a bath in the spring by the Virupaksha Cave. He stroked the creature and patted it. It followed him into the cave, inspected every nook and corner and left the place and joined the crowd to pass up to Skandasramam.
I noticed it. Everyone was struck by its attractive appearance and its fearless movements. It came up to me, got on my lap and rested there some time. Then it raised itself up, looked about and moved down; it went round the whole place and I followed it lest it should be harmed by the unwary visitors or by the peacocks. Two peacocks of the place looked at it inquisitively, whereas the mongoose moved nonchalantly from place to place and finally disappeared into the rocks on the south-east of the Asramam."Talk 83 Talk 85
Talk 83
Tindivanam Railway Station16th October, 1935
Talk 83.
The Master relating some stories of the bhaktas told how Sri Krishna served Eknath for twelve years, how Panduranga relieved Sakku Bai from her home prison and enabled her to visit Pandharpur.
Then he recollected the appearance of a mysterious Moulvi on his way from Madura to Tiruvannamalai in 1896, how he appeared, spoke and disappeared suddenly.
Talk 82 Talk 84
Talk 82
16th October, 1935
Talk 82.
A question was raised about the differences in the various samadhis.
Maharshi: When the senses are merged in darkness it is deep sleep; when merged in light it is samadhi. Just as a passenger when asleep in a carriage is unaware of the motion, the halting or the unharnessing of the horses, so also a Jnani [?] in sahaja samadhi [?] is unaware of the happenings, waking, dream and deep sleep.
Here sleep corresponds to the unharnessing of the horses. And samadhi corresponds to the halting of the horses, because the senses are ready to act just as the horses are ready to move after halting. In samadhi the head does not bend down because the senses are there though inactive; whereas the head bends down in sleep because the senses are merged in darkness. In kevala samadhi [?], the activities (vital and mental), waking, dream and sleep, are only merged, ready to emerge after regaining the state other than samadhi.
In sahaja [?] samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he did not take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even when reminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi. Sushumna pare leena. Here sushumna [?] refers to tapo marge whereas the para nadi [?] refers to jnana marga [?].
Talk 81 Talk 83
Talk 82.
A question was raised about the differences in the various samadhis.
Maharshi: When the senses are merged in darkness it is deep sleep; when merged in light it is samadhi. Just as a passenger when asleep in a carriage is unaware of the motion, the halting or the unharnessing of the horses, so also a Jnani [?] in sahaja samadhi [?] is unaware of the happenings, waking, dream and deep sleep.
Here sleep corresponds to the unharnessing of the horses. And samadhi corresponds to the halting of the horses, because the senses are ready to act just as the horses are ready to move after halting. In samadhi the head does not bend down because the senses are there though inactive; whereas the head bends down in sleep because the senses are merged in darkness. In kevala samadhi [?], the activities (vital and mental), waking, dream and sleep, are only merged, ready to emerge after regaining the state other than samadhi.
In sahaja [?] samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he did not take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even when reminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi. Sushumna pare leena. Here sushumna [?] refers to tapo marge whereas the para nadi [?] refers to jnana marga [?].
Talk 81 Talk 83
Talk 81
15th October, 1935
Talk 81.
Dr. Bernhard Bey, an American Chemist who had interested himself in Vedanta for the last twenty years, now in India, came on a visit to the Master. He asked: "How is abhyasa [?] to be made? I am trying to find the Light." (He himself explained abhyasa as concentration = one-pointedness of mind.)
The Master asked, what was his abhyasa till now.
The visitor said he concentrated on the nasal base, but his mind wandered.
Maharshi: Is there a mind?
Another devotee gently put in: The mind is only a collection of thoughts.
Maharshi: To whom are the thoughts? If you try to locate the mind, the mind vanishes and the Self alone remains. Being alone, there can be no one-pointedness or otherwise.
D.: It is so difficult to understand this. If something concrete is said , it can be readily grasped. Japa, dhyana, etc., are more concrete.
Maharshi: `Who am I??' is the best japa [?].
What could be more concrete than the Self? It is within each one's experience every moment. Why should he try to catch anything outside, leaving out the Self? Let each one try to find out the known Self instead of searching for the unknown something beyond.
D.: Where shall I meditate on the Atman? I mean in which part of the body?
Maharshi: The Self should manifest itself. That is all that is wanted.
A devotee gently added: On the right of the chest, there is the Heart , the seat of the Atman. Another devotee: The illumination is in that centre when the Self is realised.
Maharshi: Quite so.
D.: How to turn the mind away from the world?
Maharshi: Is there the world? I mean apart from the Self? Does the world say that it exists? It is you who say that there is a world. Find out the Self who says it.
Talk 80 Talk 82
Talk 80
3rd October, 1935
Talk 80.
A very devoted and simple disciple had lost his only son, a child of three years. The next day he arrived at the Asramam with his family. The Master spoke with reference to them: "Training of mind helps one to bear sorrows and bereavements with courage. But the loss of one's offspring is said to be the worst of all griefs. Grief exists only so long as one considers oneself to be of a definite form. If the form is transcended one will know that the one Self is eternal. There is no death nor birth. That which is born is only the body. The body is the creation of the ego. But the ego is not ordinarily perceived without the body. It is always identified with the body. It is the thought which matters. Let the sensible man consider if he knew his body in deep sleep. Why does he feel it in the waking state? But, although the body was not felt in sleep, did not the Self exist then? How was he in deep sleep? How is he when awake? What is the difference? Ego rises up and that is waking.
Simultaneously thoughts arise. Let him find out to whom are the thoughts. Wherefrom do they arise? They must spring up from the conscious Self. Apprehending it even vaguely helps the extinction of the ego. Thereafter the realisation of the one Infinite Existence becomes possible. In that state there are no individuals other than the Eternal Existence. Hence there is no thought of death or wailing.
"If a man considers he is born he cannot avoid the fear of death. Let him find out if he has been born or if the Self has any birth. He will discover that the Self always exists, that the body which is born resolves itself into thought and that the emergence of thought is the root of all mischief. Find wherefrom thoughts emerge. Then you will abide in the ever-present inmost Self and be free from the idea of birth or the fear of death."
A disciple asked how to do it.
Maharshi: The thoughts are only vasanas (predispositions), accumulated in innumerable births before. Their annihilation is the aim. The state free from vasanas is the primal state and eternal state of purity.
D.: It is not clear yet.
Maharshi: Everyone is aware of the eternal Self. He sees so many dying but still believes himself eternal. Because it is the Truth. Unwillingly the natural Truth asserts itself. The man is deluded by the intermingling of the conscious Self with the insentient body. This delusion must end.
D.: How will it end?
Maharshi: That which is born must end. The delusion is only concomitant with the ego. It rises up and sinks. But the Reality never rises nor sinks. It remains Eternal. The master who has realised says so; the disciple hears, thinks over the words and realises the Self. There are two ways of putting it. The ever-present Self needs no efforts to be realised, Realisation is already there. Illusion alone is to be removed. Some say the word from the mouth of the Master removes it instantaneously. Others say that meditation, etc., are necessary for realisation. Both are right; only the standpoints differ.
D.: Is dhyana [?] necessary?
Maharshi: The Upanishads say that even the Earth is in eternal dhyana.
D.: How does Karma help it? Will it not add to the already heavy load to be removed?
Maharshi: Karma done unselfishly purifies the mind and helps to fix it in meditation.
D.: What if one meditates incessantly without Karma?
Maharshi: Try and see. The vasanas will not let you do it. Dhyana [?] comes only step by step with the gradual weakening of the vasanas by the Grace of the Master.
Talk 79 Talk 81
Talk 80.
A very devoted and simple disciple had lost his only son, a child of three years. The next day he arrived at the Asramam with his family. The Master spoke with reference to them: "Training of mind helps one to bear sorrows and bereavements with courage. But the loss of one's offspring is said to be the worst of all griefs. Grief exists only so long as one considers oneself to be of a definite form. If the form is transcended one will know that the one Self is eternal. There is no death nor birth. That which is born is only the body. The body is the creation of the ego. But the ego is not ordinarily perceived without the body. It is always identified with the body. It is the thought which matters. Let the sensible man consider if he knew his body in deep sleep. Why does he feel it in the waking state? But, although the body was not felt in sleep, did not the Self exist then? How was he in deep sleep? How is he when awake? What is the difference? Ego rises up and that is waking.
Simultaneously thoughts arise. Let him find out to whom are the thoughts. Wherefrom do they arise? They must spring up from the conscious Self. Apprehending it even vaguely helps the extinction of the ego. Thereafter the realisation of the one Infinite Existence becomes possible. In that state there are no individuals other than the Eternal Existence. Hence there is no thought of death or wailing.
"If a man considers he is born he cannot avoid the fear of death. Let him find out if he has been born or if the Self has any birth. He will discover that the Self always exists, that the body which is born resolves itself into thought and that the emergence of thought is the root of all mischief. Find wherefrom thoughts emerge. Then you will abide in the ever-present inmost Self and be free from the idea of birth or the fear of death."
A disciple asked how to do it.
Maharshi: The thoughts are only vasanas (predispositions), accumulated in innumerable births before. Their annihilation is the aim. The state free from vasanas is the primal state and eternal state of purity.
D.: It is not clear yet.
Maharshi: Everyone is aware of the eternal Self. He sees so many dying but still believes himself eternal. Because it is the Truth. Unwillingly the natural Truth asserts itself. The man is deluded by the intermingling of the conscious Self with the insentient body. This delusion must end.
D.: How will it end?
Maharshi: That which is born must end. The delusion is only concomitant with the ego. It rises up and sinks. But the Reality never rises nor sinks. It remains Eternal. The master who has realised says so; the disciple hears, thinks over the words and realises the Self. There are two ways of putting it. The ever-present Self needs no efforts to be realised, Realisation is already there. Illusion alone is to be removed. Some say the word from the mouth of the Master removes it instantaneously. Others say that meditation, etc., are necessary for realisation. Both are right; only the standpoints differ.
D.: Is dhyana [?] necessary?
Maharshi: The Upanishads say that even the Earth is in eternal dhyana.
D.: How does Karma help it? Will it not add to the already heavy load to be removed?
Maharshi: Karma done unselfishly purifies the mind and helps to fix it in meditation.
D.: What if one meditates incessantly without Karma?
Maharshi: Try and see. The vasanas will not let you do it. Dhyana [?] comes only step by step with the gradual weakening of the vasanas by the Grace of the Master.
Talk 79 Talk 81
Talk 79
29th September, 1935
Talk 79.
An engineer asked: "The animals seem to conform to their own natural laws in spite of their environment and changes. Whereas man flouts social law and is not bound by any definite system. He seems to be degenerating whereas the animals are steady. Is it not so?"
Maharshi: (After a long time). The Upanishads and scriptures say that human beings are only animals unless they are realised beings. Possibly, they are worse also.
Talk 78 Talk 80
Talk 79.
An engineer asked: "The animals seem to conform to their own natural laws in spite of their environment and changes. Whereas man flouts social law and is not bound by any definite system. He seems to be degenerating whereas the animals are steady. Is it not so?"Maharshi: (After a long time). The Upanishads and scriptures say that human beings are only animals unless they are realised beings. Possibly, they are worse also.
Talk 78 Talk 80
Talk 78
29th September, 1935
Talk 78.
A man from Masulla asked the Master: "How to realise the Self?"
Maharshi: Everyone has experience of the Self every moment of his life.
D.: But the Self is not realised as one would like.
Maharshi: Yes. The present experience is viparita [?] - different from real. What is not is confounded with what is.
D.: How to find the Atman?
Maharshi: There is no investigation into the Atman. The investigation can only be into the non-self. Elimination of the non-self is alone possible. The Self being always self evident will shine forth of itself. The Self is called by different names - Atman, God, Kundalini, mantra [?], etc. Hold any one of them and the Self becomes manifest. God is no other than the Self. Kundalini [?] is now showing forth as the mind. When the mind is traced to its source it is Kundalini. Mantra [?] japa [?] leads to elimination of other thoughts and to concentration on the mantra. The mantra finally merges into the Self and shines forth as the Self.
Tenamma (back row), Annamalai Swami (standing), Yogi Ramaiah (sitting), Ganapati Sastri (behind Chinnaswamy), Mudaliar Patti (obscuring Santamma)
D.: How long is a Guru necessary for Self-Realisation?
Maharshi: Guru is necessary so long as there is the laghu [?]. (Pun on Guru = heavy; laghu = light). Laghu [?] is due to the self-imposed but wrong limitation of the Self. God, on being worshipped, bestows steadiness in devotion which leads to surrender. On the devotee surrendering, God shows His mercy by manifesting as the Guru. The Guru, otherwise God, guides the devotee, saying that God is in you and He is the Self. This leads to introversion of the mind and finally to realisation. Effort is necessary up to the state of realisation. Even then the Self should spontaneously become evident. Otherwise happiness will not be complete. Up to that state of spontaneity there must be effort in some form or another.
D.: Our work-a-day life is not compatible with such efforts.
Maharshi: Why do you think that you are active? Take the gross example of your arrival here. You left home in a cart, took train, alighted at the Railway Station here, got into a cart there and found yourself in this Asramam. When asked, you say that you travelled here all the way from your town. Is it true? Is it not a fact that you remained as you were and there were movements of conveyances all along the way. Just as those movements are confounded with your own, so also the other activities. They are not your own. They are God's activities.
D.: Such idea will lead to blankness of mind and the work will not progress well.
Maharshi: Go up to that blankness and tell me afterwards.
D.: They say that a visit to Sages helps Self-Realisation?
Maharshi: Yes. So it does.
D.: Will not my present visit to you bring it about?
Maharshi: (After a short pause) What is to be brought about? To whom?
Consider; investigate. To whom is this doubt. If the source is traced the doubt will disappear.
Talk 77 Talk 79
Talk 78.
A man from Masulla asked the Master: "How to realise the Self?"
Maharshi: Everyone has experience of the Self every moment of his life.
D.: But the Self is not realised as one would like.
Maharshi: Yes. The present experience is viparita [?] - different from real. What is not is confounded with what is.
D.: How to find the Atman?
Maharshi: There is no investigation into the Atman. The investigation can only be into the non-self. Elimination of the non-self is alone possible. The Self being always self evident will shine forth of itself. The Self is called by different names - Atman, God, Kundalini, mantra [?], etc. Hold any one of them and the Self becomes manifest. God is no other than the Self. Kundalini [?] is now showing forth as the mind. When the mind is traced to its source it is Kundalini. Mantra [?] japa [?] leads to elimination of other thoughts and to concentration on the mantra. The mantra finally merges into the Self and shines forth as the Self.
Tenamma (back row), Annamalai Swami (standing), Yogi Ramaiah (sitting), Ganapati Sastri (behind Chinnaswamy), Mudaliar Patti (obscuring Santamma)D.: How long is a Guru necessary for Self-Realisation?
Maharshi: Guru is necessary so long as there is the laghu [?]. (Pun on Guru = heavy; laghu = light). Laghu [?] is due to the self-imposed but wrong limitation of the Self. God, on being worshipped, bestows steadiness in devotion which leads to surrender. On the devotee surrendering, God shows His mercy by manifesting as the Guru. The Guru, otherwise God, guides the devotee, saying that God is in you and He is the Self. This leads to introversion of the mind and finally to realisation. Effort is necessary up to the state of realisation. Even then the Self should spontaneously become evident. Otherwise happiness will not be complete. Up to that state of spontaneity there must be effort in some form or another.
D.: Our work-a-day life is not compatible with such efforts.
Maharshi: Why do you think that you are active? Take the gross example of your arrival here. You left home in a cart, took train, alighted at the Railway Station here, got into a cart there and found yourself in this Asramam. When asked, you say that you travelled here all the way from your town. Is it true? Is it not a fact that you remained as you were and there were movements of conveyances all along the way. Just as those movements are confounded with your own, so also the other activities. They are not your own. They are God's activities.
D.: Such idea will lead to blankness of mind and the work will not progress well.
Maharshi: Go up to that blankness and tell me afterwards.
D.: They say that a visit to Sages helps Self-Realisation?
Maharshi: Yes. So it does.
D.: Will not my present visit to you bring it about?
Maharshi: (After a short pause) What is to be brought about? To whom?
Consider; investigate. To whom is this doubt. If the source is traced the doubt will disappear.
Talk 77 Talk 79
Talk 77
29th September, 1935
Talk 77.
The Master, while referring to the Bible for "Be still and know that I am God", Psalm 46, found in the Ecclesiastes. "There is one alone and there is no second" and "The wise man's heart is at the right hand and a fool's heart is at the left."
Talk 76 Talk 78
Talk 76
29th September, 1935
Talk 76.
Mr. K. S. N. Iyer said that he was not convinced how spiritual life could be reconciled to worldly activities. The Master in answer cited some verses from Yoga Vasishta. (The original is said to be millions of verses, of which only 32,000 stanzas are now found in the Sanskrit text. It was condensed to 6,000 and called Laghu Vasishta. The latter has been rendered in Tamil in 2,050 stanzas).
D.: Without the mind concentrating on it the work cannot be performed satisfactorily. How is the mind to be spiritually disposed and the work kept going as well?
Maharshi:
That which is seen is lokah or the world. Which is the eye that sees it? That is the ego which rises and sinks periodically. But you exist always. Therefore That which lies beyond the ego is consciousness - the Self. In deep sleep mind is merged and not destroyed. That which merges reappears. It may happen in meditation also. But the mind which is destroyed cannot reappear. The yogi's aim must be to destroy it and not to sink in laya [?]. In the peace of dhyana [?], laya ensues but it is not enough. It must be supplemented by other practices for destroying the mind. Some people have gone into samadhi with a trifling thought and after a long time awakened in the trail of the same thought. In the meantime generations have passed away in the world. Such a yogi has not destroyed his mind. Its destruction is the non-recognition of it as being apart from the Self. Even now the mind is not. Recognise it. How can you do it if not in everyday activities. They go on automatically. Know that the mind promoting them is not real but a phantom proceeding from the Self. That is how the mind is destroyed.
Talk 75 Talk 77
Talk 76.
Mr. K. S. N. Iyer said that he was not convinced how spiritual life could be reconciled to worldly activities. The Master in answer cited some verses from Yoga Vasishta. (The original is said to be millions of verses, of which only 32,000 stanzas are now found in the Sanskrit text. It was condensed to 6,000 and called Laghu Vasishta. The latter has been rendered in Tamil in 2,050 stanzas).
D.: Without the mind concentrating on it the work cannot be performed satisfactorily. How is the mind to be spiritually disposed and the work kept going as well?
Maharshi:
The mind is only a projection from the Self, appearing in the waking state. In deep sleep, you do not say whose son you are and so on. As soon as you wake up you say you are so and so, and recognise the world and so on. The world is only lokah ,lokah = lokyate iti lokah (what is perceived is the world).
That which is seen is lokah or the world. Which is the eye that sees it? That is the ego which rises and sinks periodically. But you exist always. Therefore That which lies beyond the ego is consciousness - the Self. In deep sleep mind is merged and not destroyed. That which merges reappears. It may happen in meditation also. But the mind which is destroyed cannot reappear. The yogi's aim must be to destroy it and not to sink in laya [?]. In the peace of dhyana [?], laya ensues but it is not enough. It must be supplemented by other practices for destroying the mind. Some people have gone into samadhi with a trifling thought and after a long time awakened in the trail of the same thought. In the meantime generations have passed away in the world. Such a yogi has not destroyed his mind. Its destruction is the non-recognition of it as being apart from the Self. Even now the mind is not. Recognise it. How can you do it if not in everyday activities. They go on automatically. Know that the mind promoting them is not real but a phantom proceeding from the Self. That is how the mind is destroyed.
Talk 75 Talk 77
Talk 75
Bhagavan and Devotees27th September, 1935
Talk 75.
Mr. Grant Duff, formerly in a foreign embassy, writes: …. Pay my respects to Maharshi. He appears to me in my thoughts not only as an answer to my questions but also as Presence….
Talk 74 Talk 76
For a photo of Mr. Grant Duff, please see Living with the Words of Bhagavan, p82-3
Talk 74
27th September, 1935
Talk 74.
Mr. Frydman, the engineer, writes in one of his letters: "Maharshi is with me not only when I think of Him but also when I am not thinking of Him. Otherwise, how do I live?"
For a photo of Mr. Maurice Frydman, please see Living by the Words of Bhagavan, p 130.
For more on Mr. Frydman see this.
Talk 73 Talk 75
The Mystery of the missing photograph from The Silent Power
Talk 74.
Mr. Frydman, the engineer, writes in one of his letters: "Maharshi is with me not only when I think of Him but also when I am not thinking of Him. Otherwise, how do I live?"
For a photo of Mr. Maurice Frydman, please see Living by the Words of Bhagavan, p 130.
For more on Mr. Frydman see this.
Talk 73 Talk 75
The Mystery of the missing photograph from The Silent Power
Talk 73
27th September, 1935
Talk 73.
Mr. Ekanatha Rao, the engineer, asked, "What about the despondency of not obtaining any encouragement from the Master - much less his Grace?"
Maharshi: It is ignorance only. The quest must be made as to who is despondent and so on. It is the phantom of the ego arising after sleep which falls a prey to such thoughts. In deep sleep the person was not afflicted. Who is afflicted now while awake? The sleep state is about the normal one. Let him search and find out.
D.: But there is no incentive for want of encouragement.
Maharshi: Does not one find some kind of peace while in meditation? That is the sign of progress. That peace will be deeper and more prolonged with continued practice. It will also lead to the goal. Bhagavad
Gita - Chapter XIV - the final verses speak of gunatita [?] (one who has transcended the gunas [?]). That is the final stage. The earlier stages are asuddha satva (impure being), misra satva (mixed being), and suddha satva (Pure Being). Of these, the impure being is when overpowered by rajas [?] and tamas [?]; the mixed being is that state in which the being - satva - asserts itself spasmodically; the suddha satva overpowers rajas and tamas. After these successive stages there comes the state transcending gunas.
Talk 72 Talk 74
Talk 72
25th September, 1935
Talk 72.
Mr. K. S. N. Iyer, a railway officer, asked about japa [?].
Maharshi: The utterance and then remembrance and later meditation are the successive stages finally ending in involuntary and eternal japa. The japakarta (doer of japa) of that kind is the Self. Of all the japas, `Who am I??' is the best.
Talk 71 Talk 73
Talk 71
24th July, 1935
Talk 71.
Chronological Sequence of the Master' s Stay in Different Places at Tiruvannamalai
1896. Arrived at Tiruvannamalai and stayed in the temple premises, beneath the tree, in the interior of the underground cellar, Pathala Lingam, sometimes in the gopurams, etc.
1897 (early), removed to Gurumurtam. Stayed in the shrine and in the adjoining mango grove (18 months).
1898 (September) in Pavalakunru.
1899 (February) on the hill in caves, the mango tree cave and Virupaksha cave.
1905. Stayed in Pachiamman Koil for six months during the plague ravages. Again on the hill.
1908. January, February and March in Pachiamman Koil. Again on the hill.
1916. Skandasramam.
1922. The Ramanasramam site on the southern slope of the Hill.
Talk 70 Talk 72
Talk 71.
Chronological Sequence of the Master' s Stay in Different Places at Tiruvannamalai
1896. Arrived at Tiruvannamalai and stayed in the temple premises, beneath the tree, in the interior of the underground cellar, Pathala Lingam, sometimes in the gopurams, etc.
1897 (early), removed to Gurumurtam. Stayed in the shrine and in the adjoining mango grove (18 months).
1898 (September) in Pavalakunru.
1899 (February) on the hill in caves, the mango tree cave and Virupaksha cave.
1905. Stayed in Pachiamman Koil for six months during the plague ravages. Again on the hill.
1908. January, February and March in Pachiamman Koil. Again on the hill.
1916. Skandasramam.
1922. The Ramanasramam site on the southern slope of the Hill.
Talk 70 Talk 72
Talk 70
24th July, 1935
Talk 70.
Sri Raju Sastrigal asked Sri Bhagavan about nada [?], bindu [?] and kala [?].
Maharshi: They are in Vedanta terminology prana, mana, buddhi (the life-current, mind and intellect). In the Tantras nada is said to be subtle sound with tejas [?] - light - in it. This light is said to be the body of Siva. When it develops and sound is submerged, it becomes bindu. To be full of light (tejomaya [?]) is the aim. Kala [?] is a part of the bindu.
Talk 69 Talk 71
Talk 70.
Sri Raju Sastrigal asked Sri Bhagavan about nada [?], bindu [?] and kala [?].
Maharshi: They are in Vedanta terminology prana, mana, buddhi (the life-current, mind and intellect). In the Tantras nada is said to be subtle sound with tejas [?] - light - in it. This light is said to be the body of Siva. When it develops and sound is submerged, it becomes bindu. To be full of light (tejomaya [?]) is the aim. Kala [?] is a part of the bindu.
Talk 69 Talk 71
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
