Talk 29
4th February, 1935
Talk 29.
On another occasion, the evening was calm and cloudy. It was drizzling occasionally and somewhat cool in consequence. The windows of the Asramam Hall were closed and Maharshi was seated as usual on the sofa. Facing him sat the devotees. Some visitors had come from Cuddalore. A Sub-Judge, accompanied by two elderly ladies, was among them. The Sub-Judge began the discussion as to the impermanence of all mundane things, by putting the question. "Has the discrimination between Reality and Unreality (Sat asat vicharana) the efficacy in itself to lead us to the realisation of the one Imperishable?"
Maharshi: As propounded by all and realised by all true seekers, fixity in the Supreme Spirit (Brahma nishta) alone can make us know and realise it. It being of us and in us, any amount of discrimination (vivechana [?]) can lead us only one step forward, by making us renouncers, by goading us to discard the seeming (abhasa [?]) as transitory and to hold fast to the eternal truth and presence alone. The conversation turned upon the question as to whether Iswara
Prasad (Divine Grace) is necessary for the attaining of samrajya [?] (universal dominion) or whether a jiva's honest and strenuous efforts to attain it cannot of themselves lead him to That from whence is no return to life and death. The Maharshi with an ineffable smile which lit up His Holy Face and which was all-pervasive, shining upon the coterie around him, replied in tones of certainty and with the ring of truth; "Divine Grace is essential for Realisation. It leads one to God-realisation. But such Grace is vouchsafed only to him who is a true devotee or a yogin, who has striven hard and ceaselessly on the path towards freedom."
D.: There are six centres mentioned in the Yoga books; but the jiva [?]
is said to reside in the Heart. Is it not so?
Maharshi: Yes. The jiva is said to remain in the Heart in deep sleep; and in the brain in the waking state. The Heart need not be taken to be the muscular cavity with four chambers which propels blood. There are indeed passages which support the view. There are others who take it to mean a set of ganglia or nerve centres about that region. Whichever view is correct does not matter to us. We are not concerned with anything less than ourselves. That we have certainly within us. There could be no doubts or discussions about that. The Heart is used in the Vedas and the scriptures to denote the place whence the notion `I' springs. Does it spring only from the fleshy ball? It springs within us somewhere right in the middle of our being. The `I' has no location. Everything is the Self. There is nothing but that. So the Heart must be said to be the entire body of ourselves and of the entire universe, conceived as `I'. But to help the practiser (abhyasi [?]) we have to indicate a definite part of the Universe, or of the Body. So this Heart is pointed out as the seat of the Self. But in truth we are everywhere, we are all that is, and there is nothing else.
D.: It is said that Divine Grace is necessary to attain successful undistracted mind (samadhi). Is that so?
Maharshi: We are God (Iswara). Iswara Drishti (i.e., seeing ourselves as God)
is itself Divine Grace. So we need Divine Grace to get God's Grace. Maharshi smiles and all devotees laugh together.
D.: There is also Divine Favour (Iswara anugraham) as distinct from Divine Grace (Iswara prasadam). Is that so?
Maharshi: The thought of God is Divine Favour! He is by nature Grace (prasad or arul). It is by God's Grace that you think of God.
D.: Is not the Master's Grace the result of God's Grace?
Maharshi: Why distinguish between the two? The Master is the same as God and not different from him.
D.: When an endeavour is made to lead the right life and to concentrate thought on the Self, there is often a downfall and break. What is to be done?
Maharshi: It will come all right in the end. There is the steady impulse of your determination that sets you on your feet again after every downfall and breakdown. Gradually the obstacles are all overcome and your current becomes stronger. Everything comes right in the end. Steady determination is what is required.
Talk 28 Talk 30
Talk 28
4th February, 1935
Talk 28.
D.: What is the interrelation between regulation of thought and regulation of breath?
Maharshi: Thought (intellectual) and respiration, circulation, etc. (vegetative) activities are both different aspects of the same - the individual life. Both depend upon (or metaphorically `reside' or `inhere' in) life. Personality and other ideas spring from it like the vital activity. If respiration or other vital activity is forcibly repressed, thought also is repressed. If thought is forcibly slowed down and pinned to a point, the vital activity of respiration is slowed down, made even and confined to the lowest level compatible with life. In both cases the distracting variety of thought is temporarily at an end. The interaction is noticeable in other ways also. Take the will to live. That is thought-power. That sustains and keeps up life when other vitality is almost exhausted and delays death. In the absence of such will-power death is accelerated. So thought is said to carry life with it in the flesh and from one fleshy body to another.
D.: Are there any aids to (1) concentration and (2) casting off distractions?
Maharshi: Physically the digestive and other organs are kept free from irritation. Therefore food is regulated both in quantity and quality. Non-irritants are eaten, avoiding chillies, excess of salt, onions, wine, opium, etc. Avoid constipation, drowsiness and excitement, and all foods which induce them. Mentally take interest in one thing and fix the mind on it. Let such interest be all-absorbing to the exclusion of everything else. This is dispassion (vairagya [?]) and concentration. God or mantra [?] may be chosen. The mind gains strength to grasp the subtle and merge into it.
D.: Distractions result from inherited tendencies. Can they be cast off too?
Maharshi: Yes. Many have done so. Believe it! They did so because they believed they could. Vasanas (predispositions) can be obliterated. It is done by concentration on that which is free from vasanas and yet is their core.
D.: How long is the practice to continue?
Maharshi: Till success is achieved and until yoga-liberation becomes permanent. Success begets success. If one distraction is conquered the next is conquered and so on, until all are finally conquered. The process is like reducing an enemy's fort by slaying its man-power - one by one, as each issues out.
D.: What is the goal of this process?
Maharshi: Realising the Real.
D.: What is the nature of the Reality?
Maharshi: (a) Existence without beginning or end - eternal.
(b) Existence everywhere, endless, infinite.
(c) Existence underlying all forms, all changes, all forces, all matter and all spirit. The many change and pass away (phenomena), whereas the One always endures (noumenon).
(d) The one displacing the triads, i.e., the knower, the knowledge and the known. The triads are only appearances in time and space, whereas the Reality lies beyond and behind them. They are like a mirage over the Reality. They are the result of delusion.
D.: If `I' also be an illusion, who then casts off the illusion?
Maharshi: The `I' casts off the illusion of `I' and yet remains as `I'. Such is the paradox of Self-Realisation. The realised do not see any contradiction in it. Take the case of bhakti [?] - I approach Iswara and pray to be absorbed in Him. I then surrender myself in faith and by concentration. What remains afterwards? In place of the original `I', perfect self-surrender leaves a residuum of God in which the `I' is lost. This is the highest form of devotion (parabhakti), prapatti [?] , surrender or the height of vairagya. You give up this and that of `my' possessions. If you give up `I' and `Mine' instead, all are given up at a stroke. The very seed of possession is lost. Thus the evil is nipped in the bud or crushed in the germ itself. Dispassion (vairagya) must be very strong to do this. Eagerness to do it must be equal to that of a man kept under water trying to rise up to the surface for his life.
D.: Cannot this trouble and difficulty be lessened with the aid of a Master or an Ishta Devata [?] (God chosen for worship)? Cannot they give the power to see our Self as it is - to change us into themselves - to take us into Self-Realisation?
Maharshi: Ishta Devata and Guru are aids - very powerful aids on this path.
But an aid to be effective requires your effort also. Your effort is a sine qua non. It is you who should see the sun. Can spectacles and the sun see for you? You yourself have to see your true nature. Not much aid is required for doing it!
D.: What is the relation between my free-will and the overwhelming might of the Omnipotent?
(a) Is omniscience of God consistent with ego's freewill?
(b) Is omnipotence of God consistent with ego's freewill?
(c) Are the natural laws consistent with God's free-will?
Maharshi: Yes. Free-will is the present appearing to a limited faculty of sight and will. The same ego sees its past activity as falling into a course of `law' or rules - its own free-will being one of the links in that course of law. Omnipotence and omniscience of God are then seen by the ego to have acted through the appearance of his own free-will. So he comes to the conclusion that the ego must go by appearances. Natural laws are manifestations of God's will and they have been laid down.
D.: Is the study of science, psychology, physiology, philosophy, etc. helpful for:-
(1) this art of yoga-liberation.
(2) the intuitive grasp of the unity of the Real?
Maharshi: Very little. Some knowledge is needed for yoga and it may be found in books. But practical application is the thing needed, and personal example, personal touch and personal instructions are the most helpful aids. As for the other, a person may laboriously convince himself of the truth to be intuited, i.e., its function and nature, but the actual intuition is akin to feeling and requires practice and personal contact. Mere book learning is not of any great use. After realisation all intellectual loads are useless burdens and are thrown overboard as jetsam. Jettisoning the ego is necessary and natural.
D.: How does dream differ from waking?
Maharshi: In dreams one takes on different bodies, and they re-enter this body when one dreams of sense-contacts.
D.: What is happiness? Is it inhering in the Atman or in the object, or in the contact between the subject and the object? But we do not see happiness in our affairs. When does It actually arise?
Maharshi: When there is contact of a desirable sort or memory thereof , and when there is freedom from undesirable contacts or memory thereof, we say there is happiness. Such happiness is relative and is better called pleasure.
But men want absolute and permanent happiness. This does not reside in objects, but in the Absolute. It is Peace free from pain and pleasure - it is a neutral state.
D.: In what sense is happiness our real nature?
Maharshi: Perfect Bliss is Brahman. Perfect Peace is of the Self. That alone exists and is conscious. The same conclusion is arrived at: (a) judged metaphysically, and (b) inferred by Bhakti Marga [?] (Path of Devotion). We pray to God for Bliss and receive it by Grace. The bestower of bliss must be Bliss itself and also Infinite. Therefore, Iswara is the Personal God of infinite power and bliss. Brahman is Bliss, impersonal and absolute. The finite egos, deriving their source from Brahman and then Iswara, are in their spiritual nature bliss only. Biologically, an organism functions because such functions are attended with happiness. It is pleasure that helps our growth; food, exercise, rest, and gregarious qualities. The psychology (and metaphysics) of pleasure is perhaps this; Our nature is primarily one, entire, blissful.
Take this as a probable hypothesis. Creation is by the entire Godhead breaking into God and Nature (maya [?] or prakriti [?]). This maya is of two parts: (para [?]) - the supporting essence and (apara [?]) the five elements, mind, intellect, and ego (eightfold). Ego's perfection is suddenly broken at a point and a want is felt giving rise to a desire to get something or do something. When that want is cured by the fulfilment of that desire, the ego is happy and the original perfection is restored. Therefore happiness may be said to be our natural condition or nature. Pleasure and pain are relative and refer to our finite state, with progress by satisfaction of want. If relative progress is stopped and the soul merges into Brahman - of the nature of perfect peace - that soul ceases to have relative, temporary pleasure and enjoys perfect peace - Bliss.
Hence Self-Realisation is Bliss; it is realizing the Self as the limitless spiritual eye (jnana dristi) and not clairvoyance; it is the highest self-surrender. Samsara [?] (the world-cycle) is sorrow.
D.: Why then is samsara [?] - creation and manifestation as finitised - so full of sorrow and evil?
Maharshi: God's will!
D.: Why does God will it so?
Maharshi: It is inscrutable. No motive can be attributed to that Power -
no desire, no end to achieve can be asserted of that one Infinite, All-wise and All-powerful Being. God is untouched by activities, which take place in His presence; compare the sun and the world activities. There is no meaning in attributing responsibility and motive to the One before it becomes many. But God's will for the prescribed course of events is a good solution of the free-will problem (vexata quaestio). If the mind is restless on account of a sense of the imperfect and unsatisfactory character of what befalls us or what is committed or omitted by us, then it is wise to drop the sense of responsibility and free-will by regarding ourselves as the ordained instruments of the All-wise and All-powerful, to do and suffer as He pleases. He carries all burdens and gives us peace.
Talk 27 Talk 29
Talk 27
4th February, 1935
Talk 27.
D.: How are they practised?
Maharshi: An examination of the ephemeral nature of external phenomen a leads to vairagya [?]. Hence enquiry (vichara [?]) is the first and foremost step to be taken. When vichara continues automatically, it results in a contempt for wealth, fame, ease, pleasure, etc. The `I' thought becomes clearer for inspection. The source of `I' is the Heart - the final goal. If, however, the aspirant is not temperamentally suited to Vichara Marga (to the introspective analytical method), he must develop bhakti [?] (devotion) to an ideal - may be God, Guru , humanity in general, ethical laws, or even the idea of beauty. When
Page 26one of these takes possession of the individual, other attachments grow weaker, i.e., dispassion (vairagya) develops. Attachment for the ideal simultaneously grows and finally holds the field. Thus ekagrata [?] (concentration) grows simultaneously and imperceptibly - with or without visions and direct aids. In the absence of enquiry and devotion, the natural sedative pranayama [?] (breath regulation) may be tried. This is known as Yoga Marga. If life is imperilled the whole interest centres round the one point, the saving of life. If the breath is held the mind cannot afford to (and does not) jump at its pets - external objects. Thus there is rest for the mind so long as the breath is held. All attention being turned on breath or its regulation, other interests are lost. Again, passions are attended with irregular breathing, whereas calm and happiness are attended with slow and regular breathing. Paroxysm of joy is in fact as painful as one of pain, and both are accompanied by ruffled breaths. Real peace is happiness. Pleasures do not form happiness. The mind improves by practice and becomes finer just as the razor's edge is sharpened by stropping. The mind is then better able to tackle internal or external problems. If an aspirant be unsuited temperamentally for the first two methods and circumstantially (on account of age) for the third method, he must try the Karma Marga [?] (doing good deeds, for example, social service). His nobler instincts become more evident and he derives impersonal pleasure. His smaller self is less assertive and has a chance of expanding its good side. The man becomes duly equipped for one of the three aforesaid paths. His intuition may also develop directly by this single method.
D.: Can a line of thought or a series of questions induce Self-
hypnotism? Should it not be reduced to a single point analysing the unanalysable, elementary and vaguely perceived and elusive `I'?
Maharshi: Yes. It is really like gazing into vacancy or a dazzling crystal or light.
D.: Can the mind be fixed to that point? How?
Maharshi: If the mind is distracted, ask the question promptly, "To whom do these distracting thoughts arise?" That takes you back to the `I' point promptly.
Page 27D.: How long can the mind stay or be kept in the Heart?
Maharshi: The period extends by practice.
D.: What happens at the end of the period?
Maharshi: The mind returns to the present normal state. Unity in the Heart is replaced by variety of phenomena perceived. This is called the outgoing mind. The heart-going mind is called the resting mind.
D.: Is all this process merely intellectual or does it exhibit feeling predominantly?
Maharshi: The latter.
D.: How do all thoughts cease when the mind is in the Heart?
Maharshi: By force of will, with strong faith in the truth of the Master's teaching to that effect.
D.: What is the good of this process? M..: (a) Conquest of the will - development of concentration. (b) Conquest of passions - development of dispassion. (c) Increased practice of virtue - (samatva [?]) equality to all.
D.: Why should one adopt this self-hypnotism by thinking on the unthinkable point? Why not adopt other methods like gazing into light, holding the breath, hearing music, hearing internal sounds, repetition of the sacred syllable (Pranava [?]) or other mantras?
Maharshi: Light-gazing stupefies the mind and produces catalepsy of the will for the time being, yet secures no permanent benefit. Breath control benumbs the will for the time being only. Sound-hearing produces similar results - unless the mantra [?] is sacred and secures the help of a higher power to purify and raise the thoughts.
Talk 26 Talk 28
Talk 26
4th February, 1935
Talk 26.
D.: How shall we discover the nature of the mind i.e., its ultimate cause, or the noumenon of which it is a manifestation?
Maharshi: Arranging thoughts in the order of value, the `I' thought is the all-
important thought. Personality-idea or thought is also the root or the stem of all other thoughts, since each idea or thought arises only as someone's thought and is not known to exist independently of the ego. The ego therefore exhibits thought-activity. The second and the third persons do not appear except to the first person. Therefore they arise only after the first person appears, so all the three persons seem to rise and sink together. Trace, then, the ultimate cause of `I' or personality. The `I' idea arises to an embodied ego and should be related to a body or organism. Has it a location in the body or a special relation to any particular spot, as speech which has its centre in the brain or amativeness in the brain? Similarly, has `I' got any centre in the brain, blood, or viscera? Thought-life is seen to centre round the brain and the spinal-cord which in turn are fed by the blood circulating in them, carrying food and air duly mixed up which are transformed into nerve matter. Thus, vegetative life - including
Page 25circulation, respiration, alimentation, etc. - or vital force, is said to be (or reside in) the core or essence of the organism. Thus the mind may be regarded as the manifestation of vital force which again may be conceived as residing the Heart.
D.: Now for the art of eliminating the mind and developing intuition in its stead, are they two distinct stages with a possible neutral ground which is neither mind nor intuition? Or does the absence of mental activity necessarily involve Self-Realisation?
Maharshi: To the abhyasi [?] (practitioner) there are two distinctive stages.
There is a neutral ground of sleep, coma, faint, insanity, etc., in which the mental operations either do not exist or consciousness of Self does not prevail.
D.: Taking the first part first, how is the mind to be eliminated or relative consciousness transcended?
Maharshi: The mind is by nature restless. Begin liberating it from its restlessness; give it peace; make it free from distractions; train it to look inward; make this a habit. This is done by ignoring the external world and removing the obstacles to peace of mind.
D.: How is restlessness removed from the mind?
Maharshi: External contacts - contacts with objects other than itself - make the mind restless. Loss of interest in non-Self, (vairagya [?]) is the first step. Then the habits of introspection and concentration follow. They are characterised by control of external senses, internal faculties, etc. (sama, dama, etc.) ending in samadhi (undistracted mind).
Talk 25 Talk 27
Talk 25
4th February, 1935
Talk 25.
On a former occasion B. V. Narasimha Swami, author of Self-
Realization, asked: Who am I?? How is it to be found?
Maharshi: Ask yourself the question. The body (annamaya kosa [?]) and its functions are not `I'. Going deeper, the mind (manomaya kosa [?]) and its functions are not `I'. The next step takes on to the question. "Wherefrom do these thoughts arise?" The thoughts are spontaneous, superficial or analytical. They operate in intellect. Then, who is aware of them? The existence of thoughts, their clear conceptions and their operations become evident to the individual. The analysis leads to the conclusion that the individuality of the person is operative as the perceiver of the existence of thoughts and of their sequence. This individuality is the ego, or as people say `I'. Vijnanamaya kosa [?] (intellect) is only the sheath of `I' and not the `I' itself. Enquiring further the questions arise, "Who is this `I'? Wherefrom does it come?" `I' was not aware in sleep. Simultaneously with its rise sleep changes to dream or wakefulness. But I am not concerned with dream just now. Who am I now, in the wakeful state? If I originated from sleep, then the `I' was covered up with ignorance. Such an ignorant `I' cannot be what the scriptures say or the wise ones affirm. `I' am beyond even `Sleep'; `I' must be now and here and what I was all along in sleep and dreams also, without the qualities of such states. `I' must therefore be the unqualified substratum underlying these three states (anandamaya kosa [?] transcended). `I' is, in brief, beyond the five sheaths. Next, the residuum left over after discarding all that is not-self is the Self, Sat-Chit-Ananda [?].
D.: How is that Self to be known or realised?
Maharshi: Transcend the present plane of relativity. A separate being (Self)
appears to know something apart from itself (non-Self). That is, the subject is aware of the object. The seer is drik [?]; the seen is drisya [?]. There must be a unity underlying these two, which arises as `ego'. This ego is of the nature of chit [?] (intelligence); achit [?] (insentient object) is only negation of chit. Therefore the underlying essence is akin to the subject and not the object. Seeking the drik, until all drisya disappears, the drik will become subtler and subtler until the absolute drik alone survives. This process is called drisya vilaya [?] (the disappearance of the objective world).
D.: Why should the objects drisya be eliminated? Cannot the Truth be realised even keeping the object as it is?
Maharshi: No. Elimination of drisya means elimination of separate identities of the subject and object. The object is unreal. All drisya (including ego) is the object. Eliminating the unreal, the Reality survives. When a rope is mistaken for a snake, it is enough to remove the erroneous perception of the snake for the truth to be revealed. Without such elimination the truth will not dawn.
D.: When and how is the disappearance of the objective world (drisya
vilaya) to be effected?
Maharshi: It is complete when the relative subject, namely the mind, is eliminated. The mind is the creator of the subject and the object and is the cause of the dualistic idea. Therefore, it is the cause of the wrong notion of limited self and the misery consequent on such erroneous idea.
D.: What is this mind?
Maharshi: Mind is one form of manifestation of life. A block of wood or a subtle machine is not called mind. The vital force manifests as life- activity and also as the conscious phenomena known as the mind.
D.: What is the relation between mind and object? Is the mind contacting something different from it, viz., the world?
Maharshi: The world is `sensed' in the waking and the dream states or is the object of perception and thought, both being mental activities. If there were no such activities as waking and dreaming thought, there would be no `perception' or inference of a `world'. In sleep there is no such activity and `objects and world' do not exist for us in sleep. Hence `reality of the world' may be created by the ego by its act of emergence from sleep; and that reality may be swallowed up or disappear by the soul resuming its nature in sleep. The emergence and disappearance of the world are like the spider producing a gossamer web and then withdrawing it. The spider here underlies all the three states - waking, dreaming, and sleep; such a spider in the person is called Atman (Self), whereas the same with reference to the world (which is considered to issue from the sun) is called Brahman (Supreme Spirit). He that is in man is the same as He that is in the sun. (Sa yaschayam purushe yaschasavaditye sa ekah). While Self or Spirit is unmanifest and inactive, there are no relative doubles; e.g., subject and object - drik and drisya. If the enquiry into the ultimate cause of manifestation of mind itself is pushed on, mind will be found to be only the manifestation of the Real which is otherwise called Atman or Brahman. The mind is termed sukshma [?]
sarira [?] or `subtle-body'; and jiva [?] is the individual soul. The jiva is the essence of the growth of individuality; personality is referred to as jiva. Thought or mind is said to be its phase, or one of the ways in which the jiva manifests itself - the earlier stage or phase of such manifestation being vegetative life. This mind is always seen as being related to, or acting on, some non-mind or matter, and never by itself. Therefore mind and matter co-exist.
Talk 24 Talk 26
Talk 25.
On a former occasion B. V. Narasimha Swami, author of Self-
Realization, asked: Who am I?? How is it to be found?
Maharshi: Ask yourself the question. The body (annamaya kosa [?]) and its functions are not `I'. Going deeper, the mind (manomaya kosa [?]) and its functions are not `I'. The next step takes on to the question. "Wherefrom do these thoughts arise?" The thoughts are spontaneous, superficial or analytical. They operate in intellect. Then, who is aware of them? The existence of thoughts, their clear conceptions and their operations become evident to the individual. The analysis leads to the conclusion that the individuality of the person is operative as the perceiver of the existence of thoughts and of their sequence. This individuality is the ego, or as people say `I'. Vijnanamaya kosa [?] (intellect) is only the sheath of `I' and not the `I' itself. Enquiring further the questions arise, "Who is this `I'? Wherefrom does it come?" `I' was not aware in sleep. Simultaneously with its rise sleep changes to dream or wakefulness. But I am not concerned with dream just now. Who am I now, in the wakeful state? If I originated from sleep, then the `I' was covered up with ignorance. Such an ignorant `I' cannot be what the scriptures say or the wise ones affirm. `I' am beyond even `Sleep'; `I' must be now and here and what I was all along in sleep and dreams also, without the qualities of such states. `I' must therefore be the unqualified substratum underlying these three states (anandamaya kosa [?] transcended). `I' is, in brief, beyond the five sheaths. Next, the residuum left over after discarding all that is not-self is the Self, Sat-Chit-Ananda [?].
D.: How is that Self to be known or realised?
Maharshi: Transcend the present plane of relativity. A separate being (Self)
appears to know something apart from itself (non-Self). That is, the subject is aware of the object. The seer is drik [?]; the seen is drisya [?]. There must be a unity underlying these two, which arises as `ego'. This ego is of the nature of chit [?] (intelligence); achit [?] (insentient object) is only negation of chit. Therefore the underlying essence is akin to the subject and not the object. Seeking the drik, until all drisya disappears, the drik will become subtler and subtler until the absolute drik alone survives. This process is called drisya vilaya [?] (the disappearance of the objective world).
D.: Why should the objects drisya be eliminated? Cannot the Truth be realised even keeping the object as it is?
Maharshi: No. Elimination of drisya means elimination of separate identities of the subject and object. The object is unreal. All drisya (including ego) is the object. Eliminating the unreal, the Reality survives. When a rope is mistaken for a snake, it is enough to remove the erroneous perception of the snake for the truth to be revealed. Without such elimination the truth will not dawn.
D.: When and how is the disappearance of the objective world (drisya
vilaya) to be effected?
Maharshi: It is complete when the relative subject, namely the mind, is eliminated. The mind is the creator of the subject and the object and is the cause of the dualistic idea. Therefore, it is the cause of the wrong notion of limited self and the misery consequent on such erroneous idea.
D.: What is this mind?
Maharshi: Mind is one form of manifestation of life. A block of wood or a subtle machine is not called mind. The vital force manifests as life- activity and also as the conscious phenomena known as the mind.
D.: What is the relation between mind and object? Is the mind contacting something different from it, viz., the world?
Maharshi: The world is `sensed' in the waking and the dream states or is the object of perception and thought, both being mental activities. If there were no such activities as waking and dreaming thought, there would be no `perception' or inference of a `world'. In sleep there is no such activity and `objects and world' do not exist for us in sleep. Hence `reality of the world' may be created by the ego by its act of emergence from sleep; and that reality may be swallowed up or disappear by the soul resuming its nature in sleep. The emergence and disappearance of the world are like the spider producing a gossamer web and then withdrawing it. The spider here underlies all the three states - waking, dreaming, and sleep; such a spider in the person is called Atman (Self), whereas the same with reference to the world (which is considered to issue from the sun) is called Brahman (Supreme Spirit). He that is in man is the same as He that is in the sun. (Sa yaschayam purushe yaschasavaditye sa ekah). While Self or Spirit is unmanifest and inactive, there are no relative doubles; e.g., subject and object - drik and drisya. If the enquiry into the ultimate cause of manifestation of mind itself is pushed on, mind will be found to be only the manifestation of the Real which is otherwise called Atman or Brahman. The mind is termed sukshma [?]
sarira [?] or `subtle-body'; and jiva [?] is the individual soul. The jiva is the essence of the growth of individuality; personality is referred to as jiva. Thought or mind is said to be its phase, or one of the ways in which the jiva manifests itself - the earlier stage or phase of such manifestation being vegetative life. This mind is always seen as being related to, or acting on, some non-mind or matter, and never by itself. Therefore mind and matter co-exist.
Talk 24 Talk 26
Talk 24
4th February, 1935
Talk 24.
Mrs. Piggott: Why do you take milk, but not eggs?
Maharshi: The domesticated cows yield more milk than necessary for their calves and they find it a pleasure to be relieved of the milk.
D.: But the hen cannot contain the eggs?
Maharshi: But there are potential lives in them.
D.: Thoughts cease suddenly, then `I-I' rises up as suddenly and continues. It is only in the feeling and not in the intellect. Can it be right?
Maharshi: It is certainly right. Thoughts must cease and reason disappear for `I-I' to rise up and be felt. Feeling is the prime factor and not reason.
D.: Moreover it is not in the head but in the right side of the chest.
Maharshi: It ought to be so. Because the heart is there.
D.: When I see outside it disappears. What is to be done?
Maharshi: It must be held tight.
D.: If one is active with such remembrance, will the actions be always right?
Maharshi: They ought to be. However, such a person is not concerned with the right or wrong of his actions. Such a person's actions are God's and therefore they must be right.
D.: Why then the restrictions of food given for such?
Maharshi: Your present experience is due to the influence of the atmosphere you are in. Can you have it outside this atmosphere? The experience is spasmodic. Until it becomes permanent practice is necessary. Restrictions of food are aids for such experience to be repeated. After one gets established in truth the restrictions drop away naturally. Moreover, food influences the mind and it must be kept pure.
The lady told a disciple later: "I feel the vibrations from him more intensely and I am able to reach the `I' centre more readily than before."
Talk 23 Talk 25
Talk 23
2nd February, 1935
On Masters
Mr. Evans-Wentz continued another day: "May one have more than one spiritual master?"
Maharshi: Who is a Master? He is the Self after all. According to the stages of the development of the mind the Self manifests as the Master externally. The famous ancient saint Avadhuta[1] said that he had more than 24 Masters. The Master is one from whom one learns anything. The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the case of Avadhuta. God, Guru and the Self are identical. A spiritual-minded man thinks that God is all-pervading and takes God for his Guru. Later, God brings him in contact with a personal Guru and the man recognises him as all in all. Lastly the same man is made by the grace of the Master to feel that his Self is the Reality and nothing else. Thus he finds that the Self is the Master.
D.: Does Sri Bhagavan initiate his disciples?
Maharshi kept silent. Thereafter one of the devotees took it upon himself to answer, saying, "Maharshi does not see anyone as outside his Self. So there are no disciples for him. His Grace is all-pervading and He communicates his Grace to any deserving individual in silence."
D.: How does book-lore help in Self-Realisation?
A.: Only so far as to make one spiritually-minded.
D.: How far does intellect help?
A.: Only so far as to make one sink the intellect in the ego, and the ego in the Self.
[1] Dattatreya
Talk 22 Talk 24
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