Talk 36
4th February, 1935
Talk 36.
An aristocratic and distinguished lady visitor from the North accompanied by her Private Secretary arrived at noon, waited a few minutes and asked Maharshi soon after he returned to the hall after lunch:
D.: Maharajji, can we see the dead?
Maharshi: Yes.
D.: Can the yogis show them to us?
Maharshi: Yes. They may. But do not ask me to show them to you. For I cannot.
D.: Do you see them?
Maharshi: Yes, in dreams.
D.: Can we realise the goal through yoga?
Maharshi: Yes.
D.: Have you written on yoga? Are there books on the subject by you?
Maharshi: Yes.
After she left the Master observed: "Did we know our relatives before their birth that we should know them after their death?"
Talk 35 Talk 37
Talk 34
4th February, 1935
YOGI RAMIAH'S ACCOUNT OF HIS EXPERIENCES
Sitting in Maharshi's presence brings peace of mind. I used to sit in samadhi for three or four hours together. Then I felt my mind took a form and came out from within. By constant practice and meditation it entered the Heart and was merged into it. I conclude that the Heart is the resting place of mind. The result is peace. When the mind is absorbed in the Heart, the Self is realised. This could be felt even at the stage of concentration (dharana [?]).
I asked Maharshi about contemplation. He taught me as follows:- When a man dies the funeral pyre is prepared and the body is laid flat on the pyre. The pyre is lit. The skin is burnt, then the flesh and then the bones until the whole body falls to ashes. What remains thereafter? The mind. The question arises, `How many are there in this body - one or two?' If two, why do people say `I' and not `we'? There is therefore only one. Whence is it born? What is its nature (swaroopa)? Enquiring thus the mind also disappears. Then what remains over is seen to be `I'. The next question is `Who am I??' The Self alone. This is contemplation. It is how I did it. By this process attachment to the body (dehavasana [?]) is destroyed. The ego vanishes. Self alone shines. One method of getting mind-dissolution (manolaya [?]) is association with great ones - the yoga adepts (Yoga arudhas). They are perfect adepts in samadhi. Self-Realisation has been easy, natural, and perpetual to them. Those moving with them closely and in sympathetic contact gradually absorb the samadhi habit from them.
Talk 33 Talk 35
Talk 33
4th February, 1935
Talk 33.
A visitor: "The Supreme Spirit (Brahman) is Real. The world (jagat [?]) is illusion," is the stock phrase of Sri Sankaracharya. Yet others say, "The world is reality". Which is true?
Maharshi: Both statements are true. They refer to different stages of development and are spoken from different points of view. The aspirant (abhyasi [?]) starts with the definition, that which is real exists always; then he eliminates the world as unreal because it is changing. It cannot be real; `not this, not this!' The seeker ultimately reaches the Self and there finds unity as the prevailing note. Then, that which was originally rejected as being unreal is found to be a part of the unity. Being absorbed in the Reality, the world also is Real. There is only being in Self-Realisation, and nothing but being. Again Reality is used in a different sense and is applied loosely by some thinkers to objects. They say that the reflected (adhyasika [?]) Reality admits of degrees which are named:
(1) Vyavaharika satya (everyday life) - this chair is seen by me and is real.
(2) Pratibhasika satya (illusory) - Illusion of a serpent in a coiled rope. The appearance is real to the man who thinks so. This phenomenon appears at a point of time and under certain circumstances.
(3) Paramartika satya (ultimate) - Reality is that which remains the same always and without change.
If Reality be used in the wider sense the world may be said to have the everyday life and illusory degrees (vyavaharika and pratibhasika satya). Some, however, deny even the reality of practical life - vyavaharika satya and consider it to be only projection of the mind. According to them it is only pratibhasika satya [?], i.e., an illusion.
Talk 32 Talk 34
Talk 32
4th February, 1935
Talk 32.
A visitor: The saints Sri Chaitanya and Sri Ramakrishna wept before God and achieved success. Is that not the path to follow?
Maharshi: Yes. There was a powerful force (sakti [?]) drawing them on through all those experiences. Trust in that huge power to take you on to your goal. Tears are often considered a sign of weakness. These great persons were certainly not weak. These manifestations are only passing signs of the great current carrying them on. We must look to the end achieved.
D.: Can this physical body be made to disappear into nothingness?
Maharshi: Why this question? Can you not find out if you are the body?
D.: Can we have disappearance from sight (antardhana [?]) like the yogis Vasishta or Viswamitra?
Maharshi: These are only physical matters. Is that the essential object of our interest? Are you not the Self? Why trouble about other matters? Take the essence; reject other learned theories as useless. They who think that physical disappearance counts in freedom are mistaken. No such thing is needed.
You are not the body; what does it matter if it disappears in one way or another? There is no great merit in such phenomena. In what does superiority or inferiority consist? Achievement of the Real alone matters. The loss of the `I' is the main fact, and not the loss of the body. Identity of the Self with the body is the real bondage. Leave off the false notion and perceive intuitively the Real. That alone matters. If you melt a gold ornament before testing it to be gold, what matters it how it is melted, whole or in parts, or of what shape the ornament was? All that you are interested in is if it is gold. The dead man sees not his body. It is the survivor that thinks about the manner in which the body is parted from. The realised have no death with or without the body, the realised man is equally aware and sees no difference. To him the one state is not superior to the other. To an outsider also the fortunes of a liberated one's body need not be of any concern; mind your business.
Realise the Self; after realisation there will be time to think of what form of death is preferable to you. It is the false identity of the Self with the body that causes the idea of preference, etc. Are you the body? Were you aware of it when you were fast asleep last night? No! What is it that exists now and troubles you? It is `I'. Get rid of it and be happy.
Talk 31 Talk 33
Talk 31
4th February, 1935
Mukti, Renunciation
A visitor asked: What to do to get liberation (moksha [?])?
Maharshi: Learn what liberation is.
D.: Should I do worship (upasana [?]) for it?
Maharshi: Worship is for mind control (chitta nirodha) and concentration.
D.: Should I do idol worship? Is there any harm in it?
Maharshi: So long as you think you are the body there is no harm.
D.: How to get over the cycle of births and deaths?
Maharshi: Learn what it means.
D.: Should I not leave my wife and family?
Maharshi: How do they harm you? First find out who you are.
D.: Should not one give up wife, wealth, home?
Maharshi: Learn first what samsara [?] is. Is all that samsara? Have there not been men living among them and getting realisation?
D.: What are the steps of practical training (sadhana [?]) for it?
Maharshi: It depends on the qualifications and the nature of the seeker.
D.: I am doing idol worship.
Maharshi: Go on with it. It leads to concentration of mind. Get one-pointed.
All will come out right. People think that freedom (moksha) is somewhere yonder and should be sought out. They are wrong. Freedom (moksha) is only knowing the Self within yourself. Concentrate and you will get it. Your mind is the cycle of births and deaths (samsara).
D.: My mind is very unsteady. What should I do?
Maharshi: Fix your attention on any single thing and try to hold on to it.
All will be right.
D.: I find concentration difficult.
Maharshi: Go on practising. Your concentration will be as easy as breathing. That will be the crown of your achievements.
D.: Are not abstinence and pure food helpful?
Maharshi: Yes, all that is good. (Then Maharshi concentrates and silently gazes at vacancy, and thus sets an example to the questioner).
D.: Do I not require Yoga?
Maharshi: What is it but the means to concentration?
D.: To help concentration, is it not good to have some aids?
Maharshi: Breath-regulation, etc., are such helps.
D.: Is it not possible to get a vision of God?
Maharshi: Yes. You see this and that. Why not see God? Only you must know what God is. All are seeing God always. But they do not know it. You find out what God is. People see, yet see not, because they know not God.
D.: Should I not go on with repetition of sacred syllables, (mantra [?]
japa [?]), e.g., Krishna or Rama's name, when I worship images?
Maharshi: Mental japa is very good. That helps meditation. Mind gets identified with the repetition and then you get to know what worship (puja [?]) really is - the losing of one's individuality in that which is worshipped.
D.: Is the Universal Soul (Paramatma) always different from us?
Maharshi: That is the common belief, but it is wrong. Think of Him as not different from you, and then you achieve identity of Self with God.
D.: Is it not the Advaita [?] doctrine to become one with God?
Maharshi: Where is becoming? The thinker is all the while the Real. He ultimately realises the fact. Sometimes we forget our identities, as in sleep and dreams. But God is perpetual consciousness.
D.: Is not the Master's guidance necessary, besides idol worship?
Maharshi: How did you start it without advice?
D.: From sacred books (puranas).
Maharshi: Yes. Someone tells you of God, or Bhagavan Himself tells you.
In the latter case God Himself is your Master. What matters it who the Master is? We really are one with Master or Bhagavan. The Master is God; one discovers it in the end. There is no difference between human-guru and God-guru.
D.: If we have done virtuous action (punya [?]) the achievement will not leave us. I hope.
Maharshi: You will reap your destiny (prarabdha [?]) that way.
D.: Will not a Wise Master be a great help in pointing out the way?
Maharshi: Yes. If you go on working with the light available, you will meet your Master, as he himself will be seeking you.
D.: Is there a difference between prapatti [?] (self-surrender) and the Path of Yoga of the Seers?
Maharshi: Jnana Marga [?] and Bhakti Marga [?] (prapati) are one and the same.
Self-surrender leads to realisation just as enquiry does. Complete self-surrender means that you have no further thought of `I'. Then all your predispositions (samskaras) are washed off and you are free. You should not continue as a separate entity at the end of either course.
D.: Do not we go to Heaven (svarga [?]), etc. as the result of our actions?
Maharshi: That is as true as the present existence. But if we enquire who we are and discover the Self, what need is there to think of heaven, etc.?
D.: Should I not try to escape rebirth?
Maharshi: Yes. Find out who is born and who has the trouble of existence now. When you are asleep do you think of rebirths or even the present existence, etc.? So find out whence the present problem arises and there is the solution also. You will discover that there is no birth, no present trouble or unhappiness, etc. All is That; All is Bliss; we are freed from rebirth in fact. Why fret over the misery of rebirth?
Talk 30 Talk 32
Talk 30
4th February, 1935
Talk 30.
Mr. N. Natesa Iyer, the leader of the Bar in a South Indian town, an orthodox Brahmin, asked: "Are the gods Iswara or Vishnu and their sacred regions Kailasa or Vaikuntha [?] real?
Maharshi: As real as you are in this body.
D.: Do they possess a vyavahara satya, i.e., phenomenal existence , like my body? Or are they fictions like the horn of a hare?
Maharshi: They do exist.
D.: If so, they must be somewhere. Where are they?
Maharshi: Persons who have seen them say that they exist somewhere. So we must accept their statement.
D.: Where do they exist?
Maharshi: In you.
D.: Then it is only idea - that which I can create and control?
Maharshi: Everything is like that.
D.: But I can create pure fictions e.g., hare's horn or only part truths, e.g. mirage, while there are also facts irrespective of my imagination. Do the gods Iswara or Vishnu exist like that?
Maharshi: Yes.
D.: Is He subject to pralaya [?] (cosmic dissolution)?
Maharshi: Why? Man becoming aware of the Self transcends cosmic dissolution (pralaya) and becomes liberated (mukta [?]). Why not God (Iswara) who is infinitely wiser and abler?
Page 35D.: Do devas [?] and pisachas [?] (devils) exist similarly?
Maharshi: Yes.
D.: How are we to conceive of Supreme Consciousness (Chaitanya [?]
Brahman [?])?
Maharshi: As that which is.
D.: Should it be thought of as Self-Effulgent?
Maharshi: It transcends light and darkness. An individual (jiva [?]) sees both.
The Self enlightens the individual to see light and darkness.
D.: Should it be realised as "I am not the body, nor the agent, nor the enjoyer, etc."?
Maharshi: Why these thoughts? Do we now think that we are men, etc.? By not thinking so, do we cease to be men?
D.: Should one realise it then by the scriptural text such as "There are no differences here".
Maharshi: Why even that?
D.: If we think "I am the real," will it do?
Maharshi: All thoughts are inconsistent with realisation. The correct state is to exclude thoughts of ourselves and all other thoughts. Thought is one thing and realisation is quite another.
D.: Is it not necessary or at least advantageous to render the body invisible in one's spiritual progress?
Maharshi: Why do you think of that? Are you the body?
D.: No. But advanced spirituality must effect a change in the body. Is it not so?
Maharshi: What change do you desire in the body, and why?
D.: Is not invisibility evidence of advanced Wisdom (jnana)?
Maharshi: In that case, all those who spoke, who wrote and who passed their lives in the sight of others must be considered ignorant (ajnanis)!
D.: But the sages Vasistha and Valmiki possessed such powers?
Maharshi: It might have been their fate (prarabdha [?]) to develop such powers (siddhis) side by side with their wisdom (jnana). Why should you aim at that which is not essential but apt to prove a hindrance to wisdom (jnana)? Does the Sage (Jnani [?]) feel oppressed by his body being visible?
D.: No.
Maharshi: A hypnotist can render himself suddenly invisible. Is he therefore a Sage (Jnani)?
D.: No.
Maharshi: Visibility and invisibility refer to a seer. Who is that seer? Solve that first. Other matters are unimportant.
D.: The Vedas contain conflicting accounts of Cosmogony. Ether is said to be the first creation in one place; vital energy (prana [?]) in another place; something else in yet another; water in still another, and so on. How are these to be reconciled? Do not these impair the credibility of the Vedas?
Maharshi: Different seers saw different aspects of truths at different times , each emphasising some one view. Why do you worry about their conflicting statements? The essential aim of the Veda is to teach us the nature of the imperishable Atman and show us that we are That.
D.: I am satisfied with that portion.
Maharshi: Then treat all the rest as artha vada (auxiliary arguments) or expositions for the sake of the ignorant who seek to trace the genesis of things and matters.
D.: I am a sinner. I do not perform religious sacrifices (homas), etc.
Shall I have painful rebirths for that reason? Pray save me!
Maharshi: Why do you say that you are a sinner? Your trust in God is sufficient to save you from rebirths. Cast all burden on Him. In the Tiruvachagam it is said: "Though I am worse than a dog, you have graciously undertaken to protect me. This delusion of birth and death is maintained by you. Moreover, am I the person to sift and judge? Am I the Lord here? Oh Maheswara! It is for you to roll me through bodies (by births and deaths) or to keep me fixed at your own feet." Therefore have faith and that will save you.
D.: Sir, I have faith - and still I encounter difficulties. Weakness and giddiness afflict me after I practise concentration.
Maharshi: Breath-control (pranayama [?]) properly performed should increase one's strength.
Page 37D.: I have my professional work and yet I want to be in perpetual dhyana [?]. Will they conflict with each other?
Maharshi: There will be no conflict. As you practise both and develop your powers you will be able to attend to both. You will begin to look on business as a dream. Says the Bhagavad Gita: "That which is the night of all beings, for the disciplined man is the time of waking; when other beings are waking, then is it night for the sage who seeth." (11.69.)
Talk 29 Talk 31
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