28th January, 1936
Talk 149.
In reply to a sadhu [?] who asked if bhakti [?] consisted in forgetting the body, etc. Sri Bhagavan said:
"What do you care for the body? Practise bhakti and don't worry about what happens to the body."
Talk 148 Talk 150
Talk 148
27th January, 1936
Talk 148.
A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound - nada [?] - and desired to know if the method was right.
Maharshi: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods.
The adherents claim a very special virtue for the method. According to them it is the easiest and the most direct method. Just as a child is lulled to sleep by lullabies, so nada soothes one to the state of samadhi; again just as a king sends his state musicians to welcome his son on his return from a long journey, so also nada takes the devotee into the Lord's Abode in a pleasing manner. Nada [?] helps concentration. After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in itself. Nada is not the objective; the subject should firmly be held; otherwise a blank will result. Though the subject is there even in the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of different kinds. In order to be aware even in that blank one must remember his own self. Nada upasana (meditation on sound) is good; it is
better if associated with investigation (vichara [?]). In that case the nada is made up of chinmaya [?] and also tanmaya [?] (of Knowledge and of Self). Nada helps concentration.
Talk 147 Talk 149
Talk 148.
A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound - nada [?] - and desired to know if the method was right.
Maharshi: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods.
The adherents claim a very special virtue for the method. According to them it is the easiest and the most direct method. Just as a child is lulled to sleep by lullabies, so nada soothes one to the state of samadhi; again just as a king sends his state musicians to welcome his son on his return from a long journey, so also nada takes the devotee into the Lord's Abode in a pleasing manner. Nada [?] helps concentration. After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in itself. Nada is not the objective; the subject should firmly be held; otherwise a blank will result. Though the subject is there even in the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of different kinds. In order to be aware even in that blank one must remember his own self. Nada upasana (meditation on sound) is good; it is
better if associated with investigation (vichara [?]). In that case the nada is made up of chinmaya [?] and also tanmaya [?] (of Knowledge and of Self). Nada helps concentration.
Talk 147 Talk 149
Talk 147
26th January, 1936
Talk 147.
In answer to a Canarese Sanyasi, Sri Bhagavan said: There are different grades of mind. Realisation is of Perfection. It cannot be comprehended by the mind. Sarvajnatva (the state of all-knowing) is to be sarvam (the all); `the all' pertains only to the mind. The known and unknown together form `the all'. After transcending the mind you remain as the Self. The present knowledge is only of limitation. That Knowledge is unlimited. Being so it cannot be comprehended by this knowledge. Cease to be a knower, then there is perfection.
Talk 146 Talk 148
Talk 147.
In answer to a Canarese Sanyasi, Sri Bhagavan said: There are different grades of mind. Realisation is of Perfection. It cannot be comprehended by the mind. Sarvajnatva (the state of all-knowing) is to be sarvam (the all); `the all' pertains only to the mind. The known and unknown together form `the all'. After transcending the mind you remain as the Self. The present knowledge is only of limitation. That Knowledge is unlimited. Being so it cannot be comprehended by this knowledge. Cease to be a knower, then there is perfection.
Talk 146 Talk 148
Talk 146
26th January, 1936
Talk 146.
In reply to Miss Leena Sarabhai, a cultured Indian lady of high rank, Sri Bhagavan said: The state of equanimity is the state of bliss. The declaration in the Vedas `I am This or That', is only an aid to gain equanimity of mind.
D.: So, it is wrong to begin with a goal: is it?
Maharshi: If there be a goal to be reached it cannot be permanent. The goal must already be there. We seek to reach the goal with the ego, but the goal exists before the ego. What is in the goal is even prior to our birth, i.e., to the birth of the ego. Because we exist the ego appears to exist too. If we look on the Self as the ego then we become the ego, if as the mind we become the mind, if as the body we become the body. It is the thought which builds up sheaths in so many ways. The shadow on the water is found to be shaking. Can anyone stop the shaking of the shadow? If it should cease to shake you would not notice the water but only the light. Similarly to take no notice of the ego and its activities, but see only the light behind. The ego is the I-thought. The true `I' is the Self.
D.: It is one step to realisation.
Maharshi: Realisation is already there. The state free from thoughts is the only real state. There is no such action as Realisation. Is there anyone who is not realising the Self? Does anyone deny his own existence? Speaking of realisation, it implies two selves - the one to realise, the other to be realised. What is not already realised, is sought to be realised. Once we admit our existence, how is it that we do not know our Self?
D.: Because of the thoughts - the mind.
Maharshi: Quite so. It is the mind that stands between and veils our happiness. How do we know that we exist? If you say because of the world around us, then how do you know that you existed in deep sleep?
D.: How to get rid of the mind?
Maharshi: Is it the mind that wants to kill itself? The mind cannot kill itself.
So your business is to find the real nature of the mind. Then you will know that there is no mind. When the Self is sought, the mind is nowhere. Abiding in the Self, one need not worry about the mind.
D.: How to get rid of fear?
Maharshi: What is fear? It is only a thought. If there is anything besides the Self there is reason to fear. Who sees the second (anything external)? First the ego arises and sees objects as external. If the ego does not rise, the Self alone exists and there is no second (nothing external). For anything external to oneself implies the seer within. Seeking it there will arise no doubt, no fear - not only fear, all other thoughts centred round the ego will disappear along with it.
D.: This method seems to be quicker than the usual one of cultivating qualities alleged necessary for salvation (sadhana chatushtaya)?
Maharshi: Yes. All bad qualities centre round the ego. When the ego is gone Realisation results by itself. There are neither good nor bad qualities in the Self. The Self is free from all qualities. Qualities pertain to the mind only. It is beyond quality. If there is unity, there will also be duality. The numeral one gives rise to other numbers. The truth is neither one nor two. IT is as it is.
D.: The difficulty is to be in the thought-free state.
Maharshi: Leave the thought-free state to itself. Do not think of it as pertaining to you. Just as when you walk, you involuntarily take steps, so too in your actions; but the thought-free state is not affected by your actions.
D.: What is it that is discriminative in action?
Maharshi: Discrimination will be automatic, intuitive.
D.: So Intuition alone matters; Intuition develops also.
Maharshi: Those who have discovered great Truths have done so in the still depths of the Self. The ego is like one's shadow thrown on the ground. If one attempts to bury it, it will be foolish. The Self is only one. If limited it is the ego. If unlimited it is Infinite and is the Reality. The bubbles are different from one another and numerous, but the ocean is only one. Similarly the egos are many, whereas the Self is one and only one. When told that you are not the ego, realise the Reality. Why do you still identify yourself with the ego? It is like saying, "Don't think of the monkey while taking medicine" - it is impossible. Similarly it happens with common folk. When the Reality is mentioned why do you continue to meditate Sivoham [?] or Aham Brahmasmi [?]? The significance must be traced and understood. It is not enough to repeat the bare words or think of them. Reality is simply the loss of the ego. Destroy the ego by seeking its identity. Because the ego is no entity it will automatically vanish and Reality will shine forth by itself. This is the direct method. Whereas all other methods are done, only retaining the ego. In those paths there arise so many doubts and the eternal question remains to be tackled finally. But in this method the final question is the only one and it is raised from the very beginning. No sadhanas are necessary for engaging in this quest. There is no greater mystery than this - viz., ourselves being the Reality we seek to gain Reality. We think that there is something hiding our Reality and that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. It is ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past efforts. That which will be on the day you laugh is also here and now.
D.: So it is a great game of pretending?
Maharshi: Yes.
In Yoga Vasishtha it is said, "What is Real is hidden from us, but what is false, is revealed as true." We are actually experiencing the Reality only; still, we do not know it. Is it not a wonder of wonders?
The quest "Who am I??" is the axe with which to cut off the ego.
Talk 145 Talk 147
Talk 146.
In reply to Miss Leena Sarabhai, a cultured Indian lady of high rank, Sri Bhagavan said: The state of equanimity is the state of bliss. The declaration in the Vedas `I am This or That', is only an aid to gain equanimity of mind.
D.: So, it is wrong to begin with a goal: is it?
Maharshi: If there be a goal to be reached it cannot be permanent. The goal must already be there. We seek to reach the goal with the ego, but the goal exists before the ego. What is in the goal is even prior to our birth, i.e., to the birth of the ego. Because we exist the ego appears to exist too. If we look on the Self as the ego then we become the ego, if as the mind we become the mind, if as the body we become the body. It is the thought which builds up sheaths in so many ways. The shadow on the water is found to be shaking. Can anyone stop the shaking of the shadow? If it should cease to shake you would not notice the water but only the light. Similarly to take no notice of the ego and its activities, but see only the light behind. The ego is the I-thought. The true `I' is the Self.
D.: It is one step to realisation.
Maharshi: Realisation is already there. The state free from thoughts is the only real state. There is no such action as Realisation. Is there anyone who is not realising the Self? Does anyone deny his own existence? Speaking of realisation, it implies two selves - the one to realise, the other to be realised. What is not already realised, is sought to be realised. Once we admit our existence, how is it that we do not know our Self?
D.: Because of the thoughts - the mind.
Maharshi: Quite so. It is the mind that stands between and veils our happiness. How do we know that we exist? If you say because of the world around us, then how do you know that you existed in deep sleep?
D.: How to get rid of the mind?
Maharshi: Is it the mind that wants to kill itself? The mind cannot kill itself.
So your business is to find the real nature of the mind. Then you will know that there is no mind. When the Self is sought, the mind is nowhere. Abiding in the Self, one need not worry about the mind.
D.: How to get rid of fear?
Maharshi: What is fear? It is only a thought. If there is anything besides the Self there is reason to fear. Who sees the second (anything external)? First the ego arises and sees objects as external. If the ego does not rise, the Self alone exists and there is no second (nothing external). For anything external to oneself implies the seer within. Seeking it there will arise no doubt, no fear - not only fear, all other thoughts centred round the ego will disappear along with it.
D.: This method seems to be quicker than the usual one of cultivating qualities alleged necessary for salvation (sadhana chatushtaya)?
Maharshi: Yes. All bad qualities centre round the ego. When the ego is gone Realisation results by itself. There are neither good nor bad qualities in the Self. The Self is free from all qualities. Qualities pertain to the mind only. It is beyond quality. If there is unity, there will also be duality. The numeral one gives rise to other numbers. The truth is neither one nor two. IT is as it is.
D.: The difficulty is to be in the thought-free state.
Maharshi: Leave the thought-free state to itself. Do not think of it as pertaining to you. Just as when you walk, you involuntarily take steps, so too in your actions; but the thought-free state is not affected by your actions.
D.: What is it that is discriminative in action?
Maharshi: Discrimination will be automatic, intuitive.
D.: So Intuition alone matters; Intuition develops also.
Maharshi: Those who have discovered great Truths have done so in the still depths of the Self. The ego is like one's shadow thrown on the ground. If one attempts to bury it, it will be foolish. The Self is only one. If limited it is the ego. If unlimited it is Infinite and is the Reality. The bubbles are different from one another and numerous, but the ocean is only one. Similarly the egos are many, whereas the Self is one and only one. When told that you are not the ego, realise the Reality. Why do you still identify yourself with the ego? It is like saying, "Don't think of the monkey while taking medicine" - it is impossible. Similarly it happens with common folk. When the Reality is mentioned why do you continue to meditate Sivoham [?] or Aham Brahmasmi [?]? The significance must be traced and understood. It is not enough to repeat the bare words or think of them. Reality is simply the loss of the ego. Destroy the ego by seeking its identity. Because the ego is no entity it will automatically vanish and Reality will shine forth by itself. This is the direct method. Whereas all other methods are done, only retaining the ego. In those paths there arise so many doubts and the eternal question remains to be tackled finally. But in this method the final question is the only one and it is raised from the very beginning. No sadhanas are necessary for engaging in this quest. There is no greater mystery than this - viz., ourselves being the Reality we seek to gain Reality. We think that there is something hiding our Reality and that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. It is ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past efforts. That which will be on the day you laugh is also here and now.
D.: So it is a great game of pretending?
Maharshi: Yes.
In Yoga Vasishtha it is said, "What is Real is hidden from us, but what is false, is revealed as true." We are actually experiencing the Reality only; still, we do not know it. Is it not a wonder of wonders?
The quest "Who am I??" is the axe with which to cut off the ego.
Talk 145 Talk 147
Talk 145
23rd January, 1936
Talk 145.
Mr. P. Brunton: Why do religions speak of Gods, heaven, hell, etc.?
Maharshi: Only to make the people realise that they are on a par with this world and that the Self alone is real. The religions are according to the view-point of the seeker. Take the Bhagavad Gita for instance: When Arjuna said that he would not fight against his own relatives, his elders, etc., in order to kill them and gain the kingdom, Sri Krishna said, "Not that these, you or I, were not before, are not now, nor will not be hereafter. Nothing was born, nothing was dead, nor will it not be so hereafter" and so on. Later as he developed the theme and declared that He had given the same instruction to the Sun, through him to Ikshvaku, etc. Arjuna raised the doubt, "How could it be? You were born a few years ago. They lived ages ago." Then Sri Krishna understanding Arjuna's standpoint, said: "Yes. There have been so many incarnations of myself and yourself, I know them all but you do not know." Such statements appear contradictory, but still they are correct according to the viewpoint of the questioner. The Christ also declared that He was even before Abraham.
D.: What is the purpose of such descriptions in religions?
Maharshi: Only to establish the Reality of the Self.
D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. Is there anyone not aware of the Self? They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell ,
reincarnation. Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper them - only to bring them round to the Self. Wandering hither and thither you must return to the Self only. Then, why not abide in the Self even here and now? The other worlds require the Self as a spectator or speculator. Their reality is only of the same degrees as that of the spectator or thinker. They cannot exist without the spectator, etc. Therefore they are not different from the Self. Even the ignorant man sees only the Self when he sees objects. But he is confused and identifies the Self with the object, i.e., the body and with the senses and plays in the world. Subject and object - all merge in the Self. There is no seer nor objects seen. The seer and the seen are the Self. There are not many selves either. All are only one Self.
Talk 144 Talk 146
Talk 145.
Mr. P. Brunton: Why do religions speak of Gods, heaven, hell, etc.?
Maharshi: Only to make the people realise that they are on a par with this world and that the Self alone is real. The religions are according to the view-point of the seeker. Take the Bhagavad Gita for instance: When Arjuna said that he would not fight against his own relatives, his elders, etc., in order to kill them and gain the kingdom, Sri Krishna said, "Not that these, you or I, were not before, are not now, nor will not be hereafter. Nothing was born, nothing was dead, nor will it not be so hereafter" and so on. Later as he developed the theme and declared that He had given the same instruction to the Sun, through him to Ikshvaku, etc. Arjuna raised the doubt, "How could it be? You were born a few years ago. They lived ages ago." Then Sri Krishna understanding Arjuna's standpoint, said: "Yes. There have been so many incarnations of myself and yourself, I know them all but you do not know." Such statements appear contradictory, but still they are correct according to the viewpoint of the questioner. The Christ also declared that He was even before Abraham.
D.: What is the purpose of such descriptions in religions?
Maharshi: Only to establish the Reality of the Self.
D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. Is there anyone not aware of the Self? They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell ,
reincarnation. Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper them - only to bring them round to the Self. Wandering hither and thither you must return to the Self only. Then, why not abide in the Self even here and now? The other worlds require the Self as a spectator or speculator. Their reality is only of the same degrees as that of the spectator or thinker. They cannot exist without the spectator, etc. Therefore they are not different from the Self. Even the ignorant man sees only the Self when he sees objects. But he is confused and identifies the Self with the object, i.e., the body and with the senses and plays in the world. Subject and object - all merge in the Self. There is no seer nor objects seen. The seer and the seen are the Self. There are not many selves either. All are only one Self.
Talk 144 Talk 146
Talk 144
23rd January, 1936
Talk 144.
Mr. Prakasa Rao: What is the root-cause of maya [?]?
Maharshi: What is maya?
D.: Maya [?] is wrong knowledge, illusion.
Maharshi: For whom is the illusion? There must be one to be deluded.
Illusion is ignorance. The ignorant Self sees the objects according to you. When the objects are not themselves present how can maya exist? Maya is ya ma (maya is what is not). What remains over is the true Self. If you say that you see the objects, or if you say that you do not know the Real Unity, then are there two selves, one the knower and the other the knowable object. No one will admit of two selves in himself. The awakened man says that he himself was in deep slumber but not aware. He does not say that the sleeper was different from the present one. There is only one Self. That Self is always aware. It is changeless. There is nothing but the Self.
D.: What is the astral body?
Maharshi: Do you not have a body in your dream? Is it not different from the recumbent body on the bed?
D.: Do we survive after death? Does the astral body outlive physical death?
Maharshi: Just as in dreams you wake up after several novel experiences, so also after physical death another body is found and so on.
D.: They say that the astral body lives for forty years after death.
Maharshi: In the present body you say the dream body is astral. Did you say so in the dream body? What is astral now would appear real then, the present body itself is astral according to that viewpoint. What
is the difference between one astral body and another? There is no difference between the two.
Mr. P. Brunton: There are degrees of reality.
Maharshi: To say the dream body is unreal now, and to say that this body was unreal in the dream, does not denote degrees of reality. In deep sleep there is no experience of the body at all. There is always only one and that is the Self.
Talk 143 Talk 145
Talk 144.
Mr. Prakasa Rao: What is the root-cause of maya [?]?
Maharshi: What is maya?
D.: Maya [?] is wrong knowledge, illusion.
Maharshi: For whom is the illusion? There must be one to be deluded.
Illusion is ignorance. The ignorant Self sees the objects according to you. When the objects are not themselves present how can maya exist? Maya is ya ma (maya is what is not). What remains over is the true Self. If you say that you see the objects, or if you say that you do not know the Real Unity, then are there two selves, one the knower and the other the knowable object. No one will admit of two selves in himself. The awakened man says that he himself was in deep slumber but not aware. He does not say that the sleeper was different from the present one. There is only one Self. That Self is always aware. It is changeless. There is nothing but the Self.
D.: What is the astral body?
Maharshi: Do you not have a body in your dream? Is it not different from the recumbent body on the bed?
D.: Do we survive after death? Does the astral body outlive physical death?
Maharshi: Just as in dreams you wake up after several novel experiences, so also after physical death another body is found and so on.
D.: They say that the astral body lives for forty years after death.
Maharshi: In the present body you say the dream body is astral. Did you say so in the dream body? What is astral now would appear real then, the present body itself is astral according to that viewpoint. What
is the difference between one astral body and another? There is no difference between the two.
Mr. P. Brunton: There are degrees of reality.
Maharshi: To say the dream body is unreal now, and to say that this body was unreal in the dream, does not denote degrees of reality. In deep sleep there is no experience of the body at all. There is always only one and that is the Self.
Talk 143 Talk 145
Talk 143
23rd January, 1936
Talk 143.
Mr. P. Brunton asked Sri Bhagavan if the Hill here is hollow.
Maharshi: The puranas say so. When it is said that the Heart is a cavity , penetration into it proves it to be an expanse of light. Similarly the Hill is one of light. The caves, etc., are covered up by the Light.
D.: Are there caves inside?
Maharshi: In visions I have seen caves, cities with streets, etc., and a whole world in it.
D.: Are there Siddhas too in it?
Maharshi: All the Siddhas are reputed to be there.
D.: Are there only Siddhas or others also?
Maharshi: Just like this world.
D.: Siddhas are said to be in the Himalayas.
Maharshi: Kailas is on the Himalayas: it is the abode of Siva. Whereas this Hill is Siva Himself. All the paraphernalia of His abode must also be where He Himself is.
D.: Does Bhagavan believe that the Hill is hollow, etc.?
Maharshi: Everything depends on the viewpoint of the individual. You yourself have seen hermitages, etc., on this Hill in a vision. You have described such in your book.
D.: Yes. It was on the surface of the Hill. The vision was within me.
Maharshi: That is exactly so. Everything is within one's Self. To see the world, there must be a spectator. There could be no world without the Self. The Self is all-comprising. In fact Self is all. There is nothing besides the Self.
D.: What is the mystery of this Hill?
Maharshi: Just as you have said in Secret Egypt, "The mystery of the pyramid is the mystery of the Self," so also the mystery of this Hill is the mystery of the Self.
Maj. Chadwick: I do not know if the Self is different from the ego.
Maharshi: How were you in your deep sleep?
D.: I do not know.
Maharshi: Who does not know? Is it not the waking Self? Do you deny your existence in your deep sleep?
D.: I was and I am; but I do not know who was in deep sleep.
Maharshi: Exactly. The man awake says that he did not know anything in the state of sleep. Now he sees the objects and knows that he is there; whereas in deep sleep there were no objects, no spectator, etc.
The same one who is now speaking was in deep sleep also. What is the difference between these two states? There are objects and play of senses now which were not in sleep. A new entity, the ego, has risen up in the meantime, it plays through the senses, sees the objects, confounds itself with the body and says that the Self is the ego. In reality, what was in deep sleep continues to exist now too. The Self is changeless. It is the ego that has come between. That which rises and sets is the ego; that which remains changeless is the Self.
Talk 142 Talk 144
Talk 143.
Mr. P. Brunton asked Sri Bhagavan if the Hill here is hollow.
Maharshi: The puranas say so. When it is said that the Heart is a cavity , penetration into it proves it to be an expanse of light. Similarly the Hill is one of light. The caves, etc., are covered up by the Light.
D.: Are there caves inside?
Maharshi: In visions I have seen caves, cities with streets, etc., and a whole world in it.
D.: Are there Siddhas too in it?
Maharshi: All the Siddhas are reputed to be there.
D.: Are there only Siddhas or others also?
Maharshi: Just like this world.
D.: Siddhas are said to be in the Himalayas.
Maharshi: Kailas is on the Himalayas: it is the abode of Siva. Whereas this Hill is Siva Himself. All the paraphernalia of His abode must also be where He Himself is.
D.: Does Bhagavan believe that the Hill is hollow, etc.?
Maharshi: Everything depends on the viewpoint of the individual. You yourself have seen hermitages, etc., on this Hill in a vision. You have described such in your book.
D.: Yes. It was on the surface of the Hill. The vision was within me.
Maharshi: That is exactly so. Everything is within one's Self. To see the world, there must be a spectator. There could be no world without the Self. The Self is all-comprising. In fact Self is all. There is nothing besides the Self.
D.: What is the mystery of this Hill?
Maharshi: Just as you have said in Secret Egypt, "The mystery of the pyramid is the mystery of the Self," so also the mystery of this Hill is the mystery of the Self.
Maj. Chadwick: I do not know if the Self is different from the ego.
Maharshi: How were you in your deep sleep?
D.: I do not know.
Maharshi: Who does not know? Is it not the waking Self? Do you deny your existence in your deep sleep?
D.: I was and I am; but I do not know who was in deep sleep.
Maharshi: Exactly. The man awake says that he did not know anything in the state of sleep. Now he sees the objects and knows that he is there; whereas in deep sleep there were no objects, no spectator, etc.
The same one who is now speaking was in deep sleep also. What is the difference between these two states? There are objects and play of senses now which were not in sleep. A new entity, the ego, has risen up in the meantime, it plays through the senses, sees the objects, confounds itself with the body and says that the Self is the ego. In reality, what was in deep sleep continues to exist now too. The Self is changeless. It is the ego that has come between. That which rises and sets is the ego; that which remains changeless is the Self.
Talk 142 Talk 144
Talk 142
20th January, 1936
Talk 142.
Mr. Prakasa Rao from Bezwada: Does not illusion become inoperative even before identity with Brahman results (Brahmakaravritti [?])? Or does it persist even afterwards?
Maharshi: Illusion will not persist after vasanas are annihilated. In the interval between the knowledge of the identity and annihilation of vasanas, there will be illusion.
D.: How can the world influence a man even after identity with Brahman?
Maharshi: First do it and see. You can then raise this question, if necessary.
D.: Can we know it in the same way as we know our identity?
Maharshi: Are you different from the mind? How do you expect it to be known?
D.: Can the full scope of the Chitta [?] (Chittavilasa) be known?
Maharshi: Oh! Is this the identity of Brahman?
Ignorance vanishing, the residue reveals itself. It is experience, not in the category of knowledge.
Talk 141 Talk 143
Talk 142.
Mr. Prakasa Rao from Bezwada: Does not illusion become inoperative even before identity with Brahman results (Brahmakaravritti [?])? Or does it persist even afterwards?
Maharshi: Illusion will not persist after vasanas are annihilated. In the interval between the knowledge of the identity and annihilation of vasanas, there will be illusion.
D.: How can the world influence a man even after identity with Brahman?
Maharshi: First do it and see. You can then raise this question, if necessary.
D.: Can we know it in the same way as we know our identity?
Maharshi: Are you different from the mind? How do you expect it to be known?
D.: Can the full scope of the Chitta [?] (Chittavilasa) be known?
Maharshi: Oh! Is this the identity of Brahman?
Ignorance vanishing, the residue reveals itself. It is experience, not in the category of knowledge.
Talk 141 Talk 143
Talk 141
19th January, 1936
Talk 141.
The same gentleman later, after quoting a verse from Kaivalya [?], asked: "Can jnana be lost after being once attained?"
Maharshi: Jnana, once revealed, takes time to steady itself. The Self is certainly within the direct experience of everyone, but not as one imagines it to be. It is only as it is. This Experience is samadhi. Just as fire remains without scorching against incantations or other devices but scorches otherwise, so also the Self remains veiled by vasanas and reveals itself when there are no vasanas. Owing to the fluctuation of the vasanas, jnana takes time to steady itself. Unsteady jnana is not enough to check rebirths. Jnana cannot remain unshaken side by side with vasanas. True, that in the proximity of a great master, the vasanas will cease to be active, the mind becomes still and samadhi results, similar to fire not scorching because of other devices. Thus the disciple gains true knowledge and right experience in the presence of the master. To remain unshaken in it further efforts are necessary.
He will know it to be his real Being and thus be liberated even while alive. Samadhi with closed eyes is certainly good, but one must go further until it is realised that actionlessness and action are not hostile to each other. Fear of loss of samadhi while one is active is the sign of ignorance. Samadhi must be the natural life of everyone. There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness. Until it is realised effort is necessary. After tasting such Bliss, even once
one will repeatedly try to regain it. Having once experienced the Bliss of Peace no one would like to be out of it or engaged himself otherwise. It is as difficult for a Jnani [?] to engage in thoughts as it is for an ajnani [?] to be free from thought. The common man says that he does not know himself; he thinks many thoughts and cannot remain without thinking. Any kind of activity does not affect a Jnani; his mind remains ever in eternal Peace.
Talk 140 Talk 142
Talk 141.
The same gentleman later, after quoting a verse from Kaivalya [?], asked: "Can jnana be lost after being once attained?"
Maharshi: Jnana, once revealed, takes time to steady itself. The Self is certainly within the direct experience of everyone, but not as one imagines it to be. It is only as it is. This Experience is samadhi. Just as fire remains without scorching against incantations or other devices but scorches otherwise, so also the Self remains veiled by vasanas and reveals itself when there are no vasanas. Owing to the fluctuation of the vasanas, jnana takes time to steady itself. Unsteady jnana is not enough to check rebirths. Jnana cannot remain unshaken side by side with vasanas. True, that in the proximity of a great master, the vasanas will cease to be active, the mind becomes still and samadhi results, similar to fire not scorching because of other devices. Thus the disciple gains true knowledge and right experience in the presence of the master. To remain unshaken in it further efforts are necessary.
He will know it to be his real Being and thus be liberated even while alive. Samadhi with closed eyes is certainly good, but one must go further until it is realised that actionlessness and action are not hostile to each other. Fear of loss of samadhi while one is active is the sign of ignorance. Samadhi must be the natural life of everyone. There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness. Until it is realised effort is necessary. After tasting such Bliss, even once
one will repeatedly try to regain it. Having once experienced the Bliss of Peace no one would like to be out of it or engaged himself otherwise. It is as difficult for a Jnani [?] to engage in thoughts as it is for an ajnani [?] to be free from thought. The common man says that he does not know himself; he thinks many thoughts and cannot remain without thinking. Any kind of activity does not affect a Jnani; his mind remains ever in eternal Peace.
Talk 140 Talk 142
Talk 140
19th January, 1936
Talk 140.
D.: What is reality?
Maharshi: Reality must be always real. It is not with forms and names. That which underlies these is the Reality. It underlies limitations, being itself limitless. It is not bound. It underlies unrealities, itself being real. Reality is that which is. It is as it is. It transcends speech, beyond the expressions, e.g., existence, non-existence, etc.
Talk 139 Talk 141
Talk 140.
D.: What is reality?
Maharshi: Reality must be always real. It is not with forms and names. That which underlies these is the Reality. It underlies limitations, being itself limitless. It is not bound. It underlies unrealities, itself being real. Reality is that which is. It is as it is. It transcends speech, beyond the expressions, e.g., existence, non-existence, etc.
Talk 139 Talk 141
Talk 139
19th January, 1936
Talk 139.
Mr. Ellappa Chettiar, a Member of the Legislative Council, from Salem, asked: "Is it enough to introvert the mind or should we meditate on `I am Brahman'?"
Maharshi: To introvert the mind is the prime thing. The Buddhists consider the flow of `I' thought to be Liberation; whereas we say that such flow proceeds from its underlying substratum - the only - Reality. Why should one be meditating `I am Brahman'? Only the annihilation of `I' is Liberation. But it can be gained only by keeping the `I-I' always in view. So the need for the investigation of the `I' thought. If the `I' is not let go, no blank can result to the seeker. Otherwise meditation will end in sleep. There is only one `I' all along, but what arises up from time to time is the mistaken `I-thought'; whereas the intuitive `I' always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it becomes manifest.
The birth of the gross body does not amount to one's own birth, on the other hand, the birth of the ego is one's own birth. For liberation, nothing new remains to be gained. It is the original state and continues unchanged too.
Talk 138 Talk 140
Talk 139.
Mr. Ellappa Chettiar, a Member of the Legislative Council, from Salem, asked: "Is it enough to introvert the mind or should we meditate on `I am Brahman'?"
Maharshi: To introvert the mind is the prime thing. The Buddhists consider the flow of `I' thought to be Liberation; whereas we say that such flow proceeds from its underlying substratum - the only - Reality. Why should one be meditating `I am Brahman'? Only the annihilation of `I' is Liberation. But it can be gained only by keeping the `I-I' always in view. So the need for the investigation of the `I' thought. If the `I' is not let go, no blank can result to the seeker. Otherwise meditation will end in sleep. There is only one `I' all along, but what arises up from time to time is the mistaken `I-thought'; whereas the intuitive `I' always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it becomes manifest.
The birth of the gross body does not amount to one's own birth, on the other hand, the birth of the ego is one's own birth. For liberation, nothing new remains to be gained. It is the original state and continues unchanged too.
Talk 138 Talk 140
Talk 138
15th January, 1936
Talk 138.
The Financial Secretary of Mysore asked: "Is Paul Brunton's Secret
Path useful for Indians as well?"
Maharshi: Yes - for all.
D.: The body, the senses, etc. are not `I'. This is common amongst us. But how to practise it?
Maharshi: By the threefold method mentioned therein.
D.: Is breath-control necessary for enquiry?
Maharshi: Not quite.
D.: "There is a blankness intervening," it is said in the book.
Maharshi: Yes. Do not stop there. See for whom the blankness appears.
D.: For devotees there is no blankness, it is said.
Maharshi: Even there, there is the latent state, laya [?]; the mind wakes up after some time.
D.: What is the experience of samadhi?
Maharshi: It is as it is. For onlookers it may seem to be a swoon. Even to the practiser it may appear so in the early experiences. After a few repeated experiences it will be all right.
D.: Do they soothe nadis or do they excite them by such experiences?
Maharshi: They are excited at first. By continued experience it becomes common and the man is no longer excited.
D.: Proceeding on safe lines there should be no unpleasantness.
Excitement is uncongenial to smooth being and working.
Maharshi: A wandering mind is on the wrong way; only a devotional mind is on the right way.
Talk 137 Talk 139
Talk 138.
The Financial Secretary of Mysore asked: "Is Paul Brunton's Secret
Path useful for Indians as well?"
Maharshi: Yes - for all.
D.: The body, the senses, etc. are not `I'. This is common amongst us. But how to practise it?
Maharshi: By the threefold method mentioned therein.
D.: Is breath-control necessary for enquiry?
Maharshi: Not quite.
D.: "There is a blankness intervening," it is said in the book.
Maharshi: Yes. Do not stop there. See for whom the blankness appears.
D.: For devotees there is no blankness, it is said.
Maharshi: Even there, there is the latent state, laya [?]; the mind wakes up after some time.
D.: What is the experience of samadhi?
Maharshi: It is as it is. For onlookers it may seem to be a swoon. Even to the practiser it may appear so in the early experiences. After a few repeated experiences it will be all right.
D.: Do they soothe nadis or do they excite them by such experiences?
Maharshi: They are excited at first. By continued experience it becomes common and the man is no longer excited.
D.: Proceeding on safe lines there should be no unpleasantness.
Excitement is uncongenial to smooth being and working.
Maharshi: A wandering mind is on the wrong way; only a devotional mind is on the right way.
Talk 137 Talk 139
Talk 137
15th January, 1936
Talk 137.
Lakshman Brahmachari of Sri Ramakrishna Mission asked: "Can one imagine oneself as witness of the thoughts?"
Maharshi: It is not the natural state. It is only an idea (bhavana [?]) - an aid to stilling the mind. The Self is ever the witness, whether so imagined or not. There is no need to so imagine except for that purpose. But it is best to remain as one's Self.
Talk 136 Talk 138
Talk 137.
Lakshman Brahmachari of Sri Ramakrishna Mission asked: "Can one imagine oneself as witness of the thoughts?"
Maharshi: It is not the natural state. It is only an idea (bhavana [?]) - an aid to stilling the mind. The Self is ever the witness, whether so imagined or not. There is no need to so imagine except for that purpose. But it is best to remain as one's Self.
Talk 136 Talk 138
Talk 136
15th January, 1936
Talk 136.
Dr. G. H. Mees, a young Dutchman, was here for a few days. He asked Sri Bhagavan: "I have an impression that in deep sleep I have something akin to samadhi. Is it so?"
Maharshi: It is the waking `I' that asks the questions - not the `I' in sleep. If you attain the state of wakeful sleep which is the same as samadhi, while still awake, doubts will not arise.
Samadhi is one's natural state. It is the under-current in all the three states. This - that is, `I' - is not in those states, but these states are in It. If we get samadhi in our waking state that will persist in deep sleep also. The distinction between consciousness and unconsciousness belongs to the realm of mind, which is transcended by the state of the Real Self.
D.: Is the Buddhist view, that there is no continuous entity answering to
the ideas of the individual soul, correct or not? Is this consistent with the Hindu notion of a reincarnating ego? Is the soul a continuous entity which reincarnates again and again, according to the Hindu doctrine, or is it a mere mass of mental tendencies - samskaras?
Maharshi: The Real Self is continuous and unaffected. The reincarnating ego belongs to the lower plane, namely, thought. It is transcended by Self-Realisation.Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot. Therefore it is denied by the Buddhists. The present state is due to a mixing up of the
chit [?] (sentient) with jada [?] (insentient).
Talk 135 Talk 137
Talk 136.
Dr. G. H. Mees, a young Dutchman, was here for a few days. He asked Sri Bhagavan: "I have an impression that in deep sleep I have something akin to samadhi. Is it so?"
Maharshi: It is the waking `I' that asks the questions - not the `I' in sleep. If you attain the state of wakeful sleep which is the same as samadhi, while still awake, doubts will not arise.
Samadhi is one's natural state. It is the under-current in all the three states. This - that is, `I' - is not in those states, but these states are in It. If we get samadhi in our waking state that will persist in deep sleep also. The distinction between consciousness and unconsciousness belongs to the realm of mind, which is transcended by the state of the Real Self.
D.: Is the Buddhist view, that there is no continuous entity answering to
the ideas of the individual soul, correct or not? Is this consistent with the Hindu notion of a reincarnating ego? Is the soul a continuous entity which reincarnates again and again, according to the Hindu doctrine, or is it a mere mass of mental tendencies - samskaras?
Maharshi: The Real Self is continuous and unaffected. The reincarnating ego belongs to the lower plane, namely, thought. It is transcended by Self-Realisation.Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot. Therefore it is denied by the Buddhists. The present state is due to a mixing up of the
chit [?] (sentient) with jada [?] (insentient).
Talk 135 Talk 137
Talk 135
15th January, 1936
Talk 135.
Three European ladies from the Theosophical Conference came here and asked: "Is the whole scheme, the Plan, really good? Or is it in the nature of an error, a mistake of which we have to make the best?"
Maharshi: The Plan is indeed good. The error is on our part. When we correct it in ourselves the whole scheme becomes all right.
D.: Have you any formula to teach us how to bring it about through a remembrance of what we do during sleep?
Maharshi: No formula is needed. Everyone has the experience that he slept happily and knew nothing then. Nothing else was experienced.
D.: The answer does not satisfy me. We wander in the astral plane in our sleep but we do not remember it.
Maharshi: The astral plane is concerned with dreams, not with deep sleep.
D.: What do you consider to be the cause of world suffering? And how can we help to change it, (a) as individuals? or (b) collectively?
Maharshi: Realise the Real Self. It is all that is necessary.
D.: Can we hasten our illumination for greater service? and how?
Maharshi: As we are not able to help ourselves, so we have to surrender ourselves to the Supreme completely. Then He will take care of us as well as the world.
D.: What do you consider the goal?
Maharshi: Self-Realisation.
D.: Is there any way to meet the appointed Guru for each?
Maharshi: Intense meditation brings it about.
Talk 134 Talk 136
Talk 135.
Three European ladies from the Theosophical Conference came here and asked: "Is the whole scheme, the Plan, really good? Or is it in the nature of an error, a mistake of which we have to make the best?"
Maharshi: The Plan is indeed good. The error is on our part. When we correct it in ourselves the whole scheme becomes all right.
D.: Have you any formula to teach us how to bring it about through a remembrance of what we do during sleep?
Maharshi: No formula is needed. Everyone has the experience that he slept happily and knew nothing then. Nothing else was experienced.
D.: The answer does not satisfy me. We wander in the astral plane in our sleep but we do not remember it.
Maharshi: The astral plane is concerned with dreams, not with deep sleep.
D.: What do you consider to be the cause of world suffering? And how can we help to change it, (a) as individuals? or (b) collectively?
Maharshi: Realise the Real Self. It is all that is necessary.
D.: Can we hasten our illumination for greater service? and how?
Maharshi: As we are not able to help ourselves, so we have to surrender ourselves to the Supreme completely. Then He will take care of us as well as the world.
D.: What do you consider the goal?
Maharshi: Self-Realisation.
D.: Is there any way to meet the appointed Guru for each?
Maharshi: Intense meditation brings it about.
Talk 134 Talk 136
Talk 134
6th January, 1936
Talk 134.
A question about the Heart was raised.
Sri Bhagavan said that one should seek the Self and realise it. The Heart will play its part automatically. The seat of realisation is the Heart. It cannot be said to be either in or out.
D.: Did Bhagavan feel the Heart as the point of Realisation in his first or early experience?
Maharshi: I began to use the word after seeing literature on the subject. I correlated it with my experience.
Talk 133 Talk 135
Talk 134.
A question about the Heart was raised.
Sri Bhagavan said that one should seek the Self and realise it. The Heart will play its part automatically. The seat of realisation is the Heart. It cannot be said to be either in or out.
D.: Did Bhagavan feel the Heart as the point of Realisation in his first or early experience?
Maharshi: I began to use the word after seeing literature on the subject. I correlated it with my experience.
Talk 133 Talk 135
Talk 133
6th January, 1936
Talk 133.
There are two schools in Advaita [?]: (1) Drishti srishti [?] (simultaneous creation) and (2) Srishti drishti [?] (gradual creation). There is the Tantric Advaita which admits three fundamentals jagat, jiva, Isvara - world, soul, God. These three are also real. But the reality does not end with them. It extends beyond. That is the Tantric Advaita. The Reality is limitless. The three fundamentals do not exist apart from the Absolute Reality. All agree that Reality is all-pervading; thus Isvara [?] pervades the jiva [?]; therefore the jiva has eternal being. His knowledge is not limited. Limited knowledge is only imagined by him. In truth, his is infinite knowledge. Its limit is Silence. This truth was revealed by Dakshinamurti. For those who still perceive these three fundamentals they are said to be realities. They are concomitant with the ego.
True, the images of gods are described in great detail. Such description points only to the final Reality. Otherwise why is the special significance of each detail also given? Think. The image is only a symbol. Only that which lies beyond name and form is Reality.
Saiva Siddhanta and Vedanta have the common aim of the same Truth. Otherwise how could Sri Sankaracharya, the greatest exponent of Advaita, sing praises of gods? Obviously he did so knowingly.
The questioner earnestly explained that his faith in Saiva Siddhanta, Vedanta, etc., was shaken after reading Bahaic literature. “Please save me,” he said.
M.: Know the Self which is here and now; you will be steady and not waver.
D.: The Bahaists read others’ minds.
M.: Yes. That is possible. Your thoughts were read by another. There must be one to know your mind. That is the Truth always present which is to be realised. Truth does not waver.
D.: Show me Grace.
M.: Grace always is, and is not given. Why do you consider the pros and cons of Bahaullah or others being incarnations or otherwise? Know Thyself. Regard everything as Truth. Regard him also as the Truth.
Can he exist besides Truth? Your beliefs may change but not Truth.
D.: Show me the truth of Siddhanta, etc.
M.: Follow their instructions and then if you have doubts you may ask. Adherence to those instructions will take you only to mouna.
Differences are perceived in external objects only. If you follow their instructions all differences will be lost. No one but the son of a king can be called a prince; so also only That which is perfect is called Perfection.
One should not be content with mere discipleship, initiation, ceremony of surrender, etc.; these are external phenomena. Never forget the Truth underlying all phenomena.
D.: What is the significance of the Silence of Dakshinamurti?
M.: Many are the explanations given by scholars and sages. Have it any way you please.
Talk 132 Talk 134
Talk 133.
There are two schools in Advaita [?]: (1) Drishti srishti [?] (simultaneous creation) and (2) Srishti drishti [?] (gradual creation). There is the Tantric Advaita which admits three fundamentals jagat, jiva, Isvara - world, soul, God. These three are also real. But the reality does not end with them. It extends beyond. That is the Tantric Advaita. The Reality is limitless. The three fundamentals do not exist apart from the Absolute Reality. All agree that Reality is all-pervading; thus Isvara [?] pervades the jiva [?]; therefore the jiva has eternal being. His knowledge is not limited. Limited knowledge is only imagined by him. In truth, his is infinite knowledge. Its limit is Silence. This truth was revealed by Dakshinamurti. For those who still perceive these three fundamentals they are said to be realities. They are concomitant with the ego.
True, the images of gods are described in great detail. Such description points only to the final Reality. Otherwise why is the special significance of each detail also given? Think. The image is only a symbol. Only that which lies beyond name and form is Reality.
Saiva Siddhanta and Vedanta have the common aim of the same Truth. Otherwise how could Sri Sankaracharya, the greatest exponent of Advaita, sing praises of gods? Obviously he did so knowingly.
The questioner earnestly explained that his faith in Saiva Siddhanta, Vedanta, etc., was shaken after reading Bahaic literature. “Please save me,” he said.
M.: Know the Self which is here and now; you will be steady and not waver.
D.: The Bahaists read others’ minds.
M.: Yes. That is possible. Your thoughts were read by another. There must be one to know your mind. That is the Truth always present which is to be realised. Truth does not waver.
D.: Show me Grace.
M.: Grace always is, and is not given. Why do you consider the pros and cons of Bahaullah or others being incarnations or otherwise? Know Thyself. Regard everything as Truth. Regard him also as the Truth.
Can he exist besides Truth? Your beliefs may change but not Truth.
D.: Show me the truth of Siddhanta, etc.
M.: Follow their instructions and then if you have doubts you may ask. Adherence to those instructions will take you only to mouna.
Differences are perceived in external objects only. If you follow their instructions all differences will be lost. No one but the son of a king can be called a prince; so also only That which is perfect is called Perfection.
One should not be content with mere discipleship, initiation, ceremony of surrender, etc.; these are external phenomena. Never forget the Truth underlying all phenomena.
D.: What is the significance of the Silence of Dakshinamurti?
M.: Many are the explanations given by scholars and sages. Have it any way you please.
Talk 132 Talk 134
Talk 132
6th January, 1936
Talk 132.
An educated man asked: Is there an Absolute Being? What is its relation to the relative existence?
Maharshi: Are they different from each other? All the questions arise only in the mind. The mind arises with waking and subsides in deep sleep. As long as there is a mind, so long will there be such questions and doubts.
D.: There must be stage after stage of progress for gaining the Absolute. Are there grades of Reality?
Maharshi: There are no grades of Reality. There are grades of experience for the jiva [?] and not of Reality. If anything can be gained anew, it could also be lost, whereas the Absolute is central - here and now.
D.: If so, how do I remain ignorant of it (avarana [?])?
Maharshi: For whom is this ignorance (veiling)? Does the Absolute tell you that it is veiled? It is the jiva who says that something veils the Absolute. Find out for whom this ignorance is.
D.: Why is there imperfection in Perfection? That is, how did the Absolute become relative?
Maharshi: For whom is this relativity? For whom is this imperfection? The Absolute is not imperfect and cannot ask. The insentient cannot ask the question. Between the two something has risen up which raises these questions and which feels this doubt. Who is it? Is it the one who has now arisen? Or is it the one who is eternal? Being perfect, why do you feel yourself imperfect? Such is the teaching of all the religions. Whatever may be the experiences, the experiencer is one and the same. `I' is purna [?] - perfection. There is no diversity in sleep. That indicates perfection.
D.: Being perfect, why do I not feel it?
Maharshi: Nor is imperfection felt in deep sleep. The `I' in sleep being perfect, why does the waking `I' feel imperfect? Because the one who feels imperfect is a spurious offshoot, a differentiation from the Infinite - a segregation from God.
D.: I am the same in all the three states. Did this ego submerge me or did I entangle myself into it?
Maharshi: Did anything come up without you?
D.: I am always the same.
Maharshi: Because you see it, this appears to have come up. Did you feel this difficulty in deep sleep? What is new now?
D.: The senses and the mind.
Maharshi: Who says this? Is it the sleeper? If so he should have raised the question in deep sleep also. The sleeper has been lost hold of, some spurious offshoot has differentiated himself and speaks now. Can anything new appear without that which is eternal and perfect? This kind of dispute is itself eternal. Do not engage in it. Turn inward and put an end to all this. There will be no finality in disputations.
D.: Show me that Grace which puts an end to all this trouble. I have not come here to argue. I want only to learn.
Maharshi: Learn first what you are. This requires no sastras, no scholarship.
This is simple experience. The state of being is now and here all along. You have lost hold of yourself and are asking others for
guidance. The purpose of philosophy is to turn you inward. "If you know your Self, no evil can come to you. Since you asked me I have taught you." The ego comes up only holding you (the Self). Hold yourself and the ego will vanish. Until then the sage will be saying, "There is." - The ignorant will be asking "Where?"
D.: The crux of the problem lies in "Know Thyself."
Maharshi: Yes. Quite so.
Talk 131 Talk 133
Talk 132.
An educated man asked: Is there an Absolute Being? What is its relation to the relative existence?
Maharshi: Are they different from each other? All the questions arise only in the mind. The mind arises with waking and subsides in deep sleep. As long as there is a mind, so long will there be such questions and doubts.
D.: There must be stage after stage of progress for gaining the Absolute. Are there grades of Reality?
Maharshi: There are no grades of Reality. There are grades of experience for the jiva [?] and not of Reality. If anything can be gained anew, it could also be lost, whereas the Absolute is central - here and now.
D.: If so, how do I remain ignorant of it (avarana [?])?
Maharshi: For whom is this ignorance (veiling)? Does the Absolute tell you that it is veiled? It is the jiva who says that something veils the Absolute. Find out for whom this ignorance is.
D.: Why is there imperfection in Perfection? That is, how did the Absolute become relative?
Maharshi: For whom is this relativity? For whom is this imperfection? The Absolute is not imperfect and cannot ask. The insentient cannot ask the question. Between the two something has risen up which raises these questions and which feels this doubt. Who is it? Is it the one who has now arisen? Or is it the one who is eternal? Being perfect, why do you feel yourself imperfect? Such is the teaching of all the religions. Whatever may be the experiences, the experiencer is one and the same. `I' is purna [?] - perfection. There is no diversity in sleep. That indicates perfection.
D.: Being perfect, why do I not feel it?
Maharshi: Nor is imperfection felt in deep sleep. The `I' in sleep being perfect, why does the waking `I' feel imperfect? Because the one who feels imperfect is a spurious offshoot, a differentiation from the Infinite - a segregation from God.
D.: I am the same in all the three states. Did this ego submerge me or did I entangle myself into it?
Maharshi: Did anything come up without you?
D.: I am always the same.
Maharshi: Because you see it, this appears to have come up. Did you feel this difficulty in deep sleep? What is new now?
D.: The senses and the mind.
Maharshi: Who says this? Is it the sleeper? If so he should have raised the question in deep sleep also. The sleeper has been lost hold of, some spurious offshoot has differentiated himself and speaks now. Can anything new appear without that which is eternal and perfect? This kind of dispute is itself eternal. Do not engage in it. Turn inward and put an end to all this. There will be no finality in disputations.
D.: Show me that Grace which puts an end to all this trouble. I have not come here to argue. I want only to learn.
Maharshi: Learn first what you are. This requires no sastras, no scholarship.
This is simple experience. The state of being is now and here all along. You have lost hold of yourself and are asking others for
guidance. The purpose of philosophy is to turn you inward. "If you know your Self, no evil can come to you. Since you asked me I have taught you." The ego comes up only holding you (the Self). Hold yourself and the ego will vanish. Until then the sage will be saying, "There is." - The ignorant will be asking "Where?"
D.: The crux of the problem lies in "Know Thyself."
Maharshi: Yes. Quite so.
Talk 131 Talk 133
Talk 131
6th January, 1936
Talk 131.
Mr. Subba Rao asked: What is mukhya prana (the chief prana [?])?
Maharshi: It is that from which the ego and the prana rise. It is sometimes called Kundalini [?]. Consciousness is not born at any time, it remains eternal. But ego is born; so also the other thoughts. Associated with the absolute consciousness they shine forth; not otherwise.
D.: What is moksha [?] (liberation)?
Maharshi: Moksha [?] is to know that you were not born. "Be still and know
that I am God." To be still is not to think. Know, and not think, is the word.
D.: There are said to be six organs of different colours in the chest , of which the heart is said to be two finger-breadths to the right of
the middle line. But the Heart is also formless. Should we then imagine it to have a shape and meditate on it?
Maharshi: No. Only the quest "Who am I??" is necessary. What remains all through deep sleep and waking is the same. But in waking there is unhappiness and the effort to remove it. Asked who wakes up from sleep you say `I'. Now you are told to hold fast to this `I'. If it is done the eternal Being will reveal Itself. Investigation of `I' is the point and not meditation on the heart-centre. There is nothing like within or without. Both mean either the same thing or nothing. Of course there is also the practice of meditation on the heart- centre. It is only a practice and not investigation. Only the one who meditates on the heart can remain aware when the mind ceases to be active and remains still; whereas those who meditate on other centres cannot be so aware but infer that the mind was still only after it becomes again active.
Talk 130 Talk 132
Talk 131.
Mr. Subba Rao asked: What is mukhya prana (the chief prana [?])?
Maharshi: It is that from which the ego and the prana rise. It is sometimes called Kundalini [?]. Consciousness is not born at any time, it remains eternal. But ego is born; so also the other thoughts. Associated with the absolute consciousness they shine forth; not otherwise.
D.: What is moksha [?] (liberation)?
Maharshi: Moksha [?] is to know that you were not born. "Be still and know
that I am God." To be still is not to think. Know, and not think, is the word.
D.: There are said to be six organs of different colours in the chest , of which the heart is said to be two finger-breadths to the right of
the middle line. But the Heart is also formless. Should we then imagine it to have a shape and meditate on it?
Maharshi: No. Only the quest "Who am I??" is necessary. What remains all through deep sleep and waking is the same. But in waking there is unhappiness and the effort to remove it. Asked who wakes up from sleep you say `I'. Now you are told to hold fast to this `I'. If it is done the eternal Being will reveal Itself. Investigation of `I' is the point and not meditation on the heart-centre. There is nothing like within or without. Both mean either the same thing or nothing. Of course there is also the practice of meditation on the heart- centre. It is only a practice and not investigation. Only the one who meditates on the heart can remain aware when the mind ceases to be active and remains still; whereas those who meditate on other centres cannot be so aware but infer that the mind was still only after it becomes again active.
Talk 130 Talk 132
Talk 130
6th January, 1936
Talk 130.
Lakshman Brahmachari from Sri Ramakrishna Mission asked: Enquiry of `Who am I?' or of the `I-thought' being itself a thought, how can it be destroyed in the process?
Maharshi: When Sita was asked who was her husband among the rishis
(Rama himself being present there as a rishi) in the forest by the wives of the rishis, she denied each one as he was pointed out to her, but simply hung down her head when Rama was pointed out. Her silence was eloquent. Similarly, the Vedas also are eloquent in `neti' - `neti' (not this - not this) and then remain silent. Their silence is the Real State. This is the meaning of exposition by silence. When the source of the `I- thought' is reached it vanishes and what remains over is the Self.
D.: Patanjali Yoga Sutras speak of identification.
Maharshi: Identification with the Supreme is only the other name for the destruction of the ego.
Talk 129 Talk 131
Talk 130.
Lakshman Brahmachari from Sri Ramakrishna Mission asked: Enquiry of `Who am I?' or of the `I-thought' being itself a thought, how can it be destroyed in the process?
Maharshi: When Sita was asked who was her husband among the rishis
(Rama himself being present there as a rishi) in the forest by the wives of the rishis, she denied each one as he was pointed out to her, but simply hung down her head when Rama was pointed out. Her silence was eloquent. Similarly, the Vedas also are eloquent in `neti' - `neti' (not this - not this) and then remain silent. Their silence is the Real State. This is the meaning of exposition by silence. When the source of the `I- thought' is reached it vanishes and what remains over is the Self.
D.: Patanjali Yoga Sutras speak of identification.
Maharshi: Identification with the Supreme is only the other name for the destruction of the ego.
Talk 129 Talk 131
Talk 129
6th January, 1936
Talk 129.
An elderly gentleman, formerly a co-worker with B. V. Narasimha Swami and author of some Visishtadvaita work, visited the place for the first time. He asked about rebirths, if it is possible for the linga sarira [?] (subtle body) to get dissolved and be reborn in two years after death.
Maharshi: Yes. Surely. Not only can one be reborn, one may be twenty or forty or even seventy years old in the new body though only two years after death. Sri Bhagavan cited Lila's story from Yoga Vasishta.
Sreyo hi jnanam abhyasat jnanat dhyanam,
dhyanat karmaphala tyagah.
Here jnana stands for knowledge without practice; abhyasa [?] stands for practice without knowledge; dhyana [?] stands for practice with knowledge. "Knowledge without practice accompanying it is superior to practice without knowledge. Practice with knowledge is superior to knowledge without practice accompanying it. Karmaphala tyagah Nishkama karma as of a Jnani [?] - action without desire - is superior to knowledge with practice."
D.: What is the difference between yoga [?] and surrender?
Maharshi: Surrender is Bhakti Yoga. To reach the source of the `I-thought' is the destruction of the ego, is the attainment of the goal, is prapatti [?] (surrender), jnana, etc.
Talk 128 Talk 130
Talk 129.
An elderly gentleman, formerly a co-worker with B. V. Narasimha Swami and author of some Visishtadvaita work, visited the place for the first time. He asked about rebirths, if it is possible for the linga sarira [?] (subtle body) to get dissolved and be reborn in two years after death.
Maharshi: Yes. Surely. Not only can one be reborn, one may be twenty or forty or even seventy years old in the new body though only two years after death. Sri Bhagavan cited Lila's story from Yoga Vasishta.
Sreyo hi jnanam abhyasat jnanat dhyanam,
dhyanat karmaphala tyagah.
Here jnana stands for knowledge without practice; abhyasa [?] stands for practice without knowledge; dhyana [?] stands for practice with knowledge. "Knowledge without practice accompanying it is superior to practice without knowledge. Practice with knowledge is superior to knowledge without practice accompanying it. Karmaphala tyagah Nishkama karma as of a Jnani [?] - action without desire - is superior to knowledge with practice."
D.: What is the difference between yoga [?] and surrender?
Maharshi: Surrender is Bhakti Yoga. To reach the source of the `I-thought' is the destruction of the ego, is the attainment of the goal, is prapatti [?] (surrender), jnana, etc.
Talk 128 Talk 130
Talk 128
5th January, 1936
Talk 128.
There were some French ladies and gentlemen and American as visitors to the Asramam. They asked Sri Bhagavan several questions. Among them, one was: "What is the message of the East to the West?"
Maharshi: All go to the same goal.
To another question Sri Bhagavan said: "How do you say `I am'?
Do you take a light to find yourself? Or did you come to know it on reading books? How?"
The questioner said: "By experience."
Maharshi: Yes. Experience is the word. Knowledge implies subject and object. But experience is non-terminal, eternal.
Talk 127 Talk 129
Talk 128.
There were some French ladies and gentlemen and American as visitors to the Asramam. They asked Sri Bhagavan several questions. Among them, one was: "What is the message of the East to the West?"
Maharshi: All go to the same goal.
To another question Sri Bhagavan said: "How do you say `I am'?
Do you take a light to find yourself? Or did you come to know it on reading books? How?"
The questioner said: "By experience."
Maharshi: Yes. Experience is the word. Knowledge implies subject and object. But experience is non-terminal, eternal.
Talk 127 Talk 129
Talk 127
4th January, 1936
Talk 127.
The American Engineer asked: "Does distance have any effect upon Grace?"
Maharshi: Time and space are within us. You are always in your Self. How do time and space affect it?
D.: In radio those who are nearer hear sooner. You are Hindu, we are American. Does it make any difference?
Maharshi: No.
D.: Even thoughts are read by others.
Maharshi: That shows that all are one.
Talk 126 Talk 128
Talk 127.
The American Engineer asked: "Does distance have any effect upon Grace?"
Maharshi: Time and space are within us. You are always in your Self. How do time and space affect it?
D.: In radio those who are nearer hear sooner. You are Hindu, we are American. Does it make any difference?
Maharshi: No.
D.: Even thoughts are read by others.
Maharshi: That shows that all are one.
Talk 126 Talk 128
Talk 126
4th January, 1936
Talk 126.
Dr. Syed again asked: "Should anyone desirous of spiritual progress take to action or renunciation (pravritti-marga or nivritti-marga)?"
Maharshi: Do you go out of the Self? What is meant by giving up?
An American Engineer asked about sat-sanga (association with sages).
Maharshi: Sat [?] is within us.
D.: In the book "Who am I??" you have said the Heart is the seat of the mind. Is it so?
Maharshi: The mind is Atman.
D.: Is it Atman itself or its projection?
Maharshi: The same.
D.: The Westerners look on the mind as the highest principle, whereas the Easterners think the contrary - why?
Maharshi: Where psychology ends, there philosophy begins. This is experience; the mind is born; we see it; even without the mind we exist. There is everyone's experience to prove it.
D.: In deep sleep I do not seem to exist.
Maharshi: You say so when awake. It is the mind which speaks now. You exist in deep sleep beyond mind.
D.: Western philosophy admits the Higher Self as influencing the mind.
Talk 125 Talk 127
Talk 126.
Dr. Syed again asked: "Should anyone desirous of spiritual progress take to action or renunciation (pravritti-marga or nivritti-marga)?"
Maharshi: Do you go out of the Self? What is meant by giving up?
An American Engineer asked about sat-sanga (association with sages).
Maharshi: Sat [?] is within us.
D.: In the book "Who am I??" you have said the Heart is the seat of the mind. Is it so?
Maharshi: The mind is Atman.
D.: Is it Atman itself or its projection?
Maharshi: The same.
D.: The Westerners look on the mind as the highest principle, whereas the Easterners think the contrary - why?
Maharshi: Where psychology ends, there philosophy begins. This is experience; the mind is born; we see it; even without the mind we exist. There is everyone's experience to prove it.
D.: In deep sleep I do not seem to exist.
Maharshi: You say so when awake. It is the mind which speaks now. You exist in deep sleep beyond mind.
D.: Western philosophy admits the Higher Self as influencing the mind.
Talk 125 Talk 127
Talk 125
3rd January, 1936
Talk 125.
The Muslim Professor asked: When I am here my mind is satvic; as soon as I turn my back on this, my mind hankers after so many objects.
Maharshi: Are the objects different from you? There can be no objects without the subject.
D.: And how shall I know it?
Maharshi: Being That, what do you want to know? Are there two selves for the one to know the other?
D.: Again, I repeat, sir, how to know the truth of all this and experience the same?
Maharshi: There is no gaining of anything new. All that is required is to rid the Self of ignorance. This ignorance is the identification of the Self with the non-Self.
D.: Yes. Still I do not understand. I must have your help. Everyone here is waiting on you for your Grace. You yourself must have sought originally the help of a Guru or of God. Extend that Grace to others now and save me. Before I came here I desired to see you very much. But somehow I could not find an opportunity to do so. In Bangalore I made up my mind to return to my place. I met Mr. Frydman and others who sent me here. You have dragged me here. My case is like Paul Brunton's in Bombay, when he was dragged here having cancelled his passage home. I hesitated at first on arrival.
I wondered if I would be permitted to approach you and converse with you. My doubts were soon set at rest. I find that all are equal here. You have established an equality among all. I dined with you and others. If I should say so to my people in U.P., they would not believe it. The Brahmins would not drink water with me, nor chew pan with me. But here you have taken me and others like me in your fold. Though Gandhi is striving hard he cannot bring about such a state of affairs in the country. I am very happy in your presence. I regard you as God. I consider Sri Krishna to be true God because He has said, "Whomsoever one may worship, the worshipper worships me only and I save him." Whereas all others have said, "Salvation is through me (meaning himself) only," Krishna alone is so broad-minded and has spoken like God. You observe the same kind of equality.
Talk 124 Talk 126
Talk 125.
The Muslim Professor asked: When I am here my mind is satvic; as soon as I turn my back on this, my mind hankers after so many objects.
Maharshi: Are the objects different from you? There can be no objects without the subject.
D.: And how shall I know it?
Maharshi: Being That, what do you want to know? Are there two selves for the one to know the other?
D.: Again, I repeat, sir, how to know the truth of all this and experience the same?
Maharshi: There is no gaining of anything new. All that is required is to rid the Self of ignorance. This ignorance is the identification of the Self with the non-Self.
D.: Yes. Still I do not understand. I must have your help. Everyone here is waiting on you for your Grace. You yourself must have sought originally the help of a Guru or of God. Extend that Grace to others now and save me. Before I came here I desired to see you very much. But somehow I could not find an opportunity to do so. In Bangalore I made up my mind to return to my place. I met Mr. Frydman and others who sent me here. You have dragged me here. My case is like Paul Brunton's in Bombay, when he was dragged here having cancelled his passage home. I hesitated at first on arrival.
I wondered if I would be permitted to approach you and converse with you. My doubts were soon set at rest. I find that all are equal here. You have established an equality among all. I dined with you and others. If I should say so to my people in U.P., they would not believe it. The Brahmins would not drink water with me, nor chew pan with me. But here you have taken me and others like me in your fold. Though Gandhi is striving hard he cannot bring about such a state of affairs in the country. I am very happy in your presence. I regard you as God. I consider Sri Krishna to be true God because He has said, "Whomsoever one may worship, the worshipper worships me only and I save him." Whereas all others have said, "Salvation is through me (meaning himself) only," Krishna alone is so broad-minded and has spoken like God. You observe the same kind of equality.
Talk 124 Talk 126
Talk 124
3rd January, 1936
Talk 124.
Another impatient questioner elaborated long premises and finished asking why some children die a premature death. He required the answer not to satisfy the grown-up ones who look on, but the babies who are the victims.
Maharshi: Let the victims ask. Why do you ask and desire the answer from the standpoint of the child?
Talk 123 Talk 125
Talk 124.
Another impatient questioner elaborated long premises and finished asking why some children die a premature death. He required the answer not to satisfy the grown-up ones who look on, but the babies who are the victims.
Maharshi: Let the victims ask. Why do you ask and desire the answer from the standpoint of the child?
Talk 123 Talk 125
Talk 123
3rd January, 1936
Talk 123.
Dr. Mohammed Hafiz Syed, a Muslim Professor of Persian and Urdu in the University of Allahabad, asked: " What is the purpose of this external manifestation?"
Maharshi: This manifestation had induced your question.
D.: True. I am covered by maya [?]. How to be free from it?
Maharshi: Who is covered by maya? Who wants to be free?
D.: Master, being asked `Who?', I know that it is ignorant me , composed of the senses, mind and body. I tried this enquiry `Who?' after reading Paul Brunton's book. Three or four times I was feeling elated and the elation lasted sometime and faded away. How to be established in `I'? Please give me the clue and help me.
Maharshi: That which appears anew must also disappear in due course.
D.: Please tell me the method of reaching the eternal Truth.
Maharshi: You are That. Can you ever remain apart from the Self? To be yourself requires no effort since you are always That.
Talk 122 Talk 124
Talk 123.
Dr. Mohammed Hafiz Syed, a Muslim Professor of Persian and Urdu in the University of Allahabad, asked: " What is the purpose of this external manifestation?"
Maharshi: This manifestation had induced your question.
D.: True. I am covered by maya [?]. How to be free from it?
Maharshi: Who is covered by maya? Who wants to be free?
D.: Master, being asked `Who?', I know that it is ignorant me , composed of the senses, mind and body. I tried this enquiry `Who?' after reading Paul Brunton's book. Three or four times I was feeling elated and the elation lasted sometime and faded away. How to be established in `I'? Please give me the clue and help me.
Maharshi: That which appears anew must also disappear in due course.
D.: Please tell me the method of reaching the eternal Truth.
Maharshi: You are That. Can you ever remain apart from the Self? To be yourself requires no effort since you are always That.
Talk 122 Talk 124
Talk 122
1st January, 1936
Talk 122.
A crowd had gathered here during Christmas.
D.: How to attain Unity Consciousness?
Maharshi: Being Unity Consciousness how to attain it? Your question is its own answer.
D.: What is Atman (Self), anatman [?] (non-self) and paramatman
(Supreme Self)?
Maharshi: Atman is jivatman [?] (the individual Self) and the rest are plain. The Self is ever-present (nityasiddha). Each one wants to know the Self. What kind of help does one require to know oneself? People want to see the Self as something new. But it is eternal and remains the same all along. They desire to see it as a blazing light, etc. How can it be so? It is not light, not darkness (na tejo, na tamah). It is only as it is. It cannot be defined. The best definition is `I am that I AM.'
The Srutis speak of the Self as being the size of one's thumb, the tip of the hair, an electric spark, vast, subtler than the subtlest, etc. They have no foundation in fact. It is only Being, but different from the real and the unreal; it is Knowledge, but different from knowledge and ignorance. How can it be defined at all? It is simply Being. Again Sri Bhagavan said that in the whole Thayumanavar literature, he preferred one stanza which says: "Ego disappearing another `I-I' spontaneously manifests in full glory," etc. Again he cites Skandar Anubhuti: "Not real, nor unreal; not darkness nor light, it is." One man said, that a siddha [?] of Kumbakonam claimed to overcome the defects in Sri Sankara's system which deals only with transcendentalism and not the work-a-day life. One must be able to exercise super-human powers in ordinary life, that is to say, one must be a siddha in order to be perfect. Sri Bhagavan pointed out a stanza in Thayumanavar which condemns all siddhis. Further he said that Thayumanavar mentions mouna (silence) in numerous places but defines it in only one verse.
Mouna is said to be that state which spontaneously manifests after the annihilation of the ego. That state is beyond light and darkness, but still it is called light since no other proper word could be found for it.
Talk 121 Talk 123
Talk 122.
A crowd had gathered here during Christmas.
D.: How to attain Unity Consciousness?
Maharshi: Being Unity Consciousness how to attain it? Your question is its own answer.
D.: What is Atman (Self), anatman [?] (non-self) and paramatman
(Supreme Self)?
Maharshi: Atman is jivatman [?] (the individual Self) and the rest are plain. The Self is ever-present (nityasiddha). Each one wants to know the Self. What kind of help does one require to know oneself? People want to see the Self as something new. But it is eternal and remains the same all along. They desire to see it as a blazing light, etc. How can it be so? It is not light, not darkness (na tejo, na tamah). It is only as it is. It cannot be defined. The best definition is `I am that I AM.'
The Srutis speak of the Self as being the size of one's thumb, the tip of the hair, an electric spark, vast, subtler than the subtlest, etc. They have no foundation in fact. It is only Being, but different from the real and the unreal; it is Knowledge, but different from knowledge and ignorance. How can it be defined at all? It is simply Being. Again Sri Bhagavan said that in the whole Thayumanavar literature, he preferred one stanza which says: "Ego disappearing another `I-I' spontaneously manifests in full glory," etc. Again he cites Skandar Anubhuti: "Not real, nor unreal; not darkness nor light, it is." One man said, that a siddha [?] of Kumbakonam claimed to overcome the defects in Sri Sankara's system which deals only with transcendentalism and not the work-a-day life. One must be able to exercise super-human powers in ordinary life, that is to say, one must be a siddha in order to be perfect. Sri Bhagavan pointed out a stanza in Thayumanavar which condemns all siddhis. Further he said that Thayumanavar mentions mouna (silence) in numerous places but defines it in only one verse.
Mouna is said to be that state which spontaneously manifests after the annihilation of the ego. That state is beyond light and darkness, but still it is called light since no other proper word could be found for it.
Talk 121 Talk 123
Talk 121
25th December, 1935
Talk 121.
Talks between the Master and two Moslems on a previous occasion.
D.: Has God a form?
Maharshi: Who says so?
D.: Well, if God has no form is it proper to worship idols?
Maharshi: Leave God alone because He is unknown. What about you? Have you a form?
D.: Yes. I am this and so and so.
Maharshi: So then, you are a man with limbs, about three and a half cubits high, with beard, etc. Is it so?
D.: Certainly.
Maharshi: Then do you find yourself so in deep sleep?
D.: After waking I perceive that I was asleep. Therefore by inference I remained thus in deep sleep also.
Maharshi: If you are the body why do they bury the corpse after death? The body must refuse to be buried.
D.: No, I am the subtle jiva [?] within the gross body.
Maharshi: So you see that you are really formless; but you are at present identifying yourself with the body. So long as you are formful why should you not worship the formless God as being formful? The questioner was baffled and perplexed.
Talk 120 Talk 122
Talk 121.
Talks between the Master and two Moslems on a previous occasion.
D.: Has God a form?
Maharshi: Who says so?
D.: Well, if God has no form is it proper to worship idols?
Maharshi: Leave God alone because He is unknown. What about you? Have you a form?
D.: Yes. I am this and so and so.
Maharshi: So then, you are a man with limbs, about three and a half cubits high, with beard, etc. Is it so?
D.: Certainly.
Maharshi: Then do you find yourself so in deep sleep?
D.: After waking I perceive that I was asleep. Therefore by inference I remained thus in deep sleep also.
Maharshi: If you are the body why do they bury the corpse after death? The body must refuse to be buried.
D.: No, I am the subtle jiva [?] within the gross body.
Maharshi: So you see that you are really formless; but you are at present identifying yourself with the body. So long as you are formful why should you not worship the formless God as being formful? The questioner was baffled and perplexed.
Talk 120 Talk 122
Talk 120
25th December, 1935
Talk 120.
Later a man brought two peacocks with their eyes screened. When let loose in Maharshi's presence they flew away to a distance. They were brought back but still they flew away. Sri Bhagavan then said, "It is no use trying to keep them here. They are not ripe in their minds as these dogs ." However much they tried to keep the peacocks they would not remain there even a minute.
[Ed: please refer previous Talk for story of dogs]
Talk 119 Talk 121
Talk 120.
Later a man brought two peacocks with their eyes screened. When let loose in Maharshi's presence they flew away to a distance. They were brought back but still they flew away. Sri Bhagavan then said, "It is no use trying to keep them here. They are not ripe in their minds as these dogs ." However much they tried to keep the peacocks they would not remain there even a minute.
[Ed: please refer previous Talk for story of dogs]
Talk 119 Talk 121
Talk 119
25th December, 1935
Talk 119.
Again at the same time there were four dogs in the Asramam. Sri Bhagavan said that those dogs would not accept any food not partaken by Himself. The pandit put the matter to the test. He spread some food before them; they would not touch it; then Sri Bhagavan, after a time, put a small morsel of it into His mouth. Immediately they fell to and devoured the food.
Talk 118 Talk 120
Talk 119.
Again at the same time there were four dogs in the Asramam. Sri Bhagavan said that those dogs would not accept any food not partaken by Himself. The pandit put the matter to the test. He spread some food before them; they would not touch it; then Sri Bhagavan, after a time, put a small morsel of it into His mouth. Immediately they fell to and devoured the food.
Talk 118 Talk 120
Talk 118
25th December, 1935
Talk 118.
Mr. Rangachari, a Telugu Pandit in Voorhees' College at Vellore, asked about nishkama karma [?]. There was no reply. After a time Sri Bhagavan went up the hill and a few followed him, including the pandit. There was a thorny stick lying on the way which Sri Bhagavan picked up; he sat down and began leisurely to work at it. The thorns were cut off, the knots were made smooth, the whole stick was polished with a rough leaf. The whole operation took about six hours. Everyone was wondering at the fine appearance of the stick made of a spiky material. A shepherd boy put in his appearance on the way as the group moved off. He had lost his stick and was at a loss. Sri Bhagavan immediately gave the new one in his hand to the boy and passed on.
The pandit said that this was the matter-of-fact answer to his question.
Talk 117 Talk 119
Talk 118.
Mr. Rangachari, a Telugu Pandit in Voorhees' College at Vellore, asked about nishkama karma [?]. There was no reply. After a time Sri Bhagavan went up the hill and a few followed him, including the pandit. There was a thorny stick lying on the way which Sri Bhagavan picked up; he sat down and began leisurely to work at it. The thorns were cut off, the knots were made smooth, the whole stick was polished with a rough leaf. The whole operation took about six hours. Everyone was wondering at the fine appearance of the stick made of a spiky material. A shepherd boy put in his appearance on the way as the group moved off. He had lost his stick and was at a loss. Sri Bhagavan immediately gave the new one in his hand to the boy and passed on.
The pandit said that this was the matter-of-fact answer to his question.
Talk 117 Talk 119
Talk 117
25th December, 1935
Talk 117.
A Ceylonese: What is the first step for Realisation of Self? Please help me towards it. There is no use reading books.
Another: This one man's request is that of us all.
Maharshi: Quite so. If the Self be found in books it would have been already realised. What wonder can be greater than that we seek the Self in books? Can it be found there? Of course books have given readers the sense to ask this question and to seek the Self.
D.: Books are utterly useless. They may all be burnt. The spoken word alone is useful. Grace alone is useful.
Others spoke according to their own light, until finally they returned to the original question, but Sri Bhagavan remained silent.
Talk 116 Talk 118
Talk 117.
A Ceylonese: What is the first step for Realisation of Self? Please help me towards it. There is no use reading books.
Another: This one man's request is that of us all.
Maharshi: Quite so. If the Self be found in books it would have been already realised. What wonder can be greater than that we seek the Self in books? Can it be found there? Of course books have given readers the sense to ask this question and to seek the Self.
D.: Books are utterly useless. They may all be burnt. The spoken word alone is useful. Grace alone is useful.
Others spoke according to their own light, until finally they returned to the original question, but Sri Bhagavan remained silent.
Talk 116 Talk 118
Talk 116
25th December, 1935
Talk 116.
D.: Jiva [?] is said to be bound by karma. Is it so?
Maharshi: Let karma enjoy its fruits. As long as you are the doer so long are you the enjoyer.
D.: How to get released from karma.
Maharshi: See whose karma it is. You will find you are not the doer. Then you will be free. This requires grace of God for which you should pray to Him, worship Him and meditate on Him. The karma which takes place without effort, i.e., involuntary action, is not binding. Even a Jnani [?] is acting as seen by his bodily movements. There can be no karma without effort or without intentions (sankalpas). Therefore there are sankalpas for all. They are of two kinds (1) one, binding - bandha-hetu and the other (2) mukti-hetu - not binding. The former must be given up and the latter must be cultivated. There
is no fruit without previous karma; no karma without previous sankalpa [?]. Even mukti [?] must be the result of effort so long as the sense of doership persists.
Talk 115 Talk 117
Talk 116.
D.: Jiva [?] is said to be bound by karma. Is it so?
Maharshi: Let karma enjoy its fruits. As long as you are the doer so long are you the enjoyer.
D.: How to get released from karma.
Maharshi: See whose karma it is. You will find you are not the doer. Then you will be free. This requires grace of God for which you should pray to Him, worship Him and meditate on Him. The karma which takes place without effort, i.e., involuntary action, is not binding. Even a Jnani [?] is acting as seen by his bodily movements. There can be no karma without effort or without intentions (sankalpas). Therefore there are sankalpas for all. They are of two kinds (1) one, binding - bandha-hetu and the other (2) mukti-hetu - not binding. The former must be given up and the latter must be cultivated. There
is no fruit without previous karma; no karma without previous sankalpa [?]. Even mukti [?] must be the result of effort so long as the sense of doership persists.
Talk 115 Talk 117
Talk 115
25th December, 1935
Talk 115.
Mr. M. Frydman: Even without any initial desires there are some strange experiences for us. Wherefrom do they arise?
Maharshi: The desire may not be there now. Enough if it was there before.
Though forgotten by you now it is bearing fruit in due course. That is how the Jnani [?] is said to have prarabdha [?] left for him. Of course it is only according to others' point of view.
Talk 114 Talk 116
Talk 115.
Mr. M. Frydman: Even without any initial desires there are some strange experiences for us. Wherefrom do they arise?
Maharshi: The desire may not be there now. Enough if it was there before.
Though forgotten by you now it is bearing fruit in due course. That is how the Jnani [?] is said to have prarabdha [?] left for him. Of course it is only according to others' point of view.
Talk 114 Talk 116
Talk 114
23rd December, 1935
Talk 114.
Baron Von Veltheim - Ostran, an East German Baron, asked, There should be harmony between knowledge of the Self and knowledge of the world. They must develop side by side. Is it right? Does Maharshi agree?
Maharshi: Yes.
D.: Beyond the intellect and before wisdom dawns there will be pictures of the world passing before one's consciousness. Is it so? Sri Bhagavan pointed out the parallel passage in Dakshinamurti stotram [?] to signify that the pictures are like reflections in a mirror; again from the Upanishad - as in the mirror, so in the world of manes, as in the water, so in the world of Gandharvas; as shadow and sunlight in Brahma Loka.
D.: There is spiritual awakening since 1930 all the world over? Does Maharshi agree?
Maharshi said: "The development is according to your sight." The Baron again asked if Maharshi would induce a spiritual trance and give him a message - which is unspoken but still understandable. No answer was made.
Talk 113 Talk 115
Talk 114.
Baron Von Veltheim - Ostran, an East German Baron, asked, There should be harmony between knowledge of the Self and knowledge of the world. They must develop side by side. Is it right? Does Maharshi agree?
Maharshi: Yes.
D.: Beyond the intellect and before wisdom dawns there will be pictures of the world passing before one's consciousness. Is it so? Sri Bhagavan pointed out the parallel passage in Dakshinamurti stotram [?] to signify that the pictures are like reflections in a mirror; again from the Upanishad - as in the mirror, so in the world of manes, as in the water, so in the world of Gandharvas; as shadow and sunlight in Brahma Loka.
D.: There is spiritual awakening since 1930 all the world over? Does Maharshi agree?
Maharshi said: "The development is according to your sight." The Baron again asked if Maharshi would induce a spiritual trance and give him a message - which is unspoken but still understandable. No answer was made.
Talk 113 Talk 115
Talk 113
17th December, 1935
Talk 113.
A Telugu gentleman asked about Karma Yoga. Sri Bhagavan said that the man should act as an actor on the stage. In all actions there is the sat [?] as the underlying principle. "Remember it and act."
He asked about the purity of mind - chitta suddhi [?]. Sri Bhagavan said that chitta [?] suddhi is to engage in one thought only to the exclusion of all others. It is otherwise called one-pointedness of the mind. The practice of meditation purifies the mind.
Talk 112 Talk 114
Talk 113.
A Telugu gentleman asked about Karma Yoga. Sri Bhagavan said that the man should act as an actor on the stage. In all actions there is the sat [?] as the underlying principle. "Remember it and act."
He asked about the purity of mind - chitta suddhi [?]. Sri Bhagavan said that chitta [?] suddhi is to engage in one thought only to the exclusion of all others. It is otherwise called one-pointedness of the mind. The practice of meditation purifies the mind.
Talk 112 Talk 114
Talk 112
17th December, 1935
Talk 112.
Mr. P. Brunton, while reading Upadesa Manjari, came across the statement that the ego, the world and God are all unreal. He desired to use a different word for God or at least a qualifying adjective, e.g., the Creative Force or personal God.
Sri Bhagavan explained that God means SAMASHTI [?] - i.e., all that is, plus the Be-ing - in the same way as `I' means the individual plus the Be-ing, and the world means the variety plus Be-ing. The Be-ing is in all cases real. The all, the variety and the individual is in each case unreal. So also in the union of the real and the unreal, the mixing up or the false identification is wrong. It amounts to saying sad-asadvilakshana, i.e., transcending the real and the unreal - sat [?] and asat [?].
Reality is that which transcends all concepts, including that of God. Inasmuch as the name of God is used, it cannot be true. The Hebrew word Jehovah = (I am) expresses God correctly. Absolute Be-ing is beyond expression.
The word cannot be replaced nor need it be replaced. The Englishman casually said that in prehistoric ages there was spirituality but not high intellect, whereas intellect has now developed. Sri Bhagavan pointed out that intellect raises the question "whose intellect?" The answer is, of the Self. So intellect is a tool of the Self. The Self uses intellect for measuring variety.
Intellect is not the Self nor apart from the Self. The Self alone is eternal. Intellect is only a phenomenon. People speak of the development of variety as being the development of intellect. Intellect was always there. Dhata yatha parvam akalpayat (The Creator created just as before). Consider your own state, day by day. There is no intellect in dreamless deep sleep. But it is there now. There is no intellect in a child. It develops with age. How could there be manifestation of intellect without its seed in the sleep state and in the child? Why go to history to teach this fundamental fact? The level of truth of history is only the level of truth of the individual.
Talk 111 Talk 113
Talk 112.
Mr. P. Brunton, while reading Upadesa Manjari, came across the statement that the ego, the world and God are all unreal. He desired to use a different word for God or at least a qualifying adjective, e.g., the Creative Force or personal God.
Sri Bhagavan explained that God means SAMASHTI [?] - i.e., all that is, plus the Be-ing - in the same way as `I' means the individual plus the Be-ing, and the world means the variety plus Be-ing. The Be-ing is in all cases real. The all, the variety and the individual is in each case unreal. So also in the union of the real and the unreal, the mixing up or the false identification is wrong. It amounts to saying sad-asadvilakshana, i.e., transcending the real and the unreal - sat [?] and asat [?].
Reality is that which transcends all concepts, including that of God. Inasmuch as the name of God is used, it cannot be true. The Hebrew word Jehovah = (I am) expresses God correctly. Absolute Be-ing is beyond expression.
The word cannot be replaced nor need it be replaced. The Englishman casually said that in prehistoric ages there was spirituality but not high intellect, whereas intellect has now developed. Sri Bhagavan pointed out that intellect raises the question "whose intellect?" The answer is, of the Self. So intellect is a tool of the Self. The Self uses intellect for measuring variety.
Intellect is not the Self nor apart from the Self. The Self alone is eternal. Intellect is only a phenomenon. People speak of the development of variety as being the development of intellect. Intellect was always there. Dhata yatha parvam akalpayat (The Creator created just as before). Consider your own state, day by day. There is no intellect in dreamless deep sleep. But it is there now. There is no intellect in a child. It develops with age. How could there be manifestation of intellect without its seed in the sleep state and in the child? Why go to history to teach this fundamental fact? The level of truth of history is only the level of truth of the individual.
Talk 111 Talk 113
Talk 110
14th December, 1935
Talk 110.
An American lady asked Bhagavan what his experiences of samadhi were. When suggested that she should relate her experiences and ask if they were right, she replied that Sri Bhagavan's experiences ought to be correct and should be known, whereas her own were unimportant. She thus wanted to know if Sri Bhagavan felt his body hot or cold in samadhi, if he spent the first three and a half years of his stay at Tiruvannamalai in prayers and so on.
Maharshi: Samadhi transcends mind and speech and cannot be described. For example, the state of deep slumber cannot be described; samadhi
state can still less be explained.
D.: But I know that I am unconscious in deep sleep.
Maharshi: Consciousness and unconsciousness are only modes of the mind.
Samadhi transcends the mind.
D.: Still you can say what it is like.
Maharshi: You will know only when you are in samadhi.
Talk 109 Talk 111
Talk 110.
An American lady asked Bhagavan what his experiences of samadhi were. When suggested that she should relate her experiences and ask if they were right, she replied that Sri Bhagavan's experiences ought to be correct and should be known, whereas her own were unimportant. She thus wanted to know if Sri Bhagavan felt his body hot or cold in samadhi, if he spent the first three and a half years of his stay at Tiruvannamalai in prayers and so on.
Maharshi: Samadhi transcends mind and speech and cannot be described. For example, the state of deep slumber cannot be described; samadhi
state can still less be explained.
D.: But I know that I am unconscious in deep sleep.
Maharshi: Consciousness and unconsciousness are only modes of the mind.
Samadhi transcends the mind.
D.: Still you can say what it is like.
Maharshi: You will know only when you are in samadhi.
Talk 109 Talk 111
Talk 109
13th December, 1935
Talk 109.
Two gentlemen from Ambala (the Punjab) had been here for a few weeks. Just before taking leave of Sri Bhagavan one of them asked how he should remove the spiritual drowsiness of his friends or of other people in general.
Maharshi: Have you removed your own `spiritual drowsiness?' The force which is set up to remove your own `drowsiness' will also operate in other centres. There is the will-power with which you can act on others. But it is on a lower plane and not desirable. Take care of yourself first.
D.: How to remove my own `drowsiness'?
Maharshi: Whose `drowsiness' is it? Enquire. Turn within. Turn all your enquiries towards search for Self. The force set up within you will operate on others also.
Talk 108 Talk 110
Talk 109.
Two gentlemen from Ambala (the Punjab) had been here for a few weeks. Just before taking leave of Sri Bhagavan one of them asked how he should remove the spiritual drowsiness of his friends or of other people in general.
Maharshi: Have you removed your own `spiritual drowsiness?' The force which is set up to remove your own `drowsiness' will also operate in other centres. There is the will-power with which you can act on others. But it is on a lower plane and not desirable. Take care of yourself first.
D.: How to remove my own `drowsiness'?
Maharshi: Whose `drowsiness' is it? Enquire. Turn within. Turn all your enquiries towards search for Self. The force set up within you will operate on others also.
Talk 108 Talk 110
Talk 108
29th November, 1935
Talk 108.
In continuation of dialogue 105: Uddalaka explained that all proceeds from sat [?] (as illustrated by deep sleep). The body takes food. Food requires water. Water requires heat to digest the food. (Tejo mulamanvichcha) It is sat parasyam devatayam (merged in the Be-ing). If we are sat sampannah (merged in the Be-ing), how is it that we do not realise it?
Maharshi: Just as the honey gathered from different flowers forms the bulk in a honeycomb, and each drop does not indicate wherefrom it has been collected, so also sat sampannah in deep sleep, death, etc. , people do not recognise their individualities. They slip into that state unawares. But when they wake up they regain their original individual characteristics.
D.: Honey, though collected from different flowers, becomes the bulk and does not possess individual characteristics. But the individual parts do not also exist in the drops and they do not return to their sources. Whereas the individuals after going to deep sleep wake up individuals as formerly. How is it?
Maharshi: Just as the rivers discharged into the ocean lose their individualities , still the waters evaporate and return as rain on the hills and through rivers to the ocean, so also the individuals going to sleep lose their individualities and yet return as individuals according to their previous vasanas unawares. Thus, even in death, sat is not lost.
D.: How can that be?
Maharshi: See how a tree, whose branches are cut, grows again. So long as the life-source is not affected it will grow. Similarly the samskaras (anamneses) sink into the heart in death: they do not perish. They will in right time sprout forth from the heart. That is how the jivas are reborn.
D.: How does the wide universe sprout forth from such subtle samskaras remaining sunk in the heart?
Maharshi: Just as a big banyan tree sprouts from a tiny seed, so the wide universe with names and forms sprouts forth from the heart.
D.: If the origin is sat why is it not felt?
Maharshi: The salt in the lump is visible; it is invisible in solution. Still its existence is known by taste. Similarly sat, though not recognised by the intellect, can still be realised in a different way, i.e., transcendentally.
D.: How?
Maharshi: Just as a man blindfolded and left by robbers in a jungle enquires his way home and returns there, so also the ignorant one (blinded by ignorance) enquires of those not so blinded and seeks his own source and returns to it.
Then, Gurupadesa - "Vang manasi sampadyate, manah prane,
pranastejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam iti."
D.: If so, a Jnani [?] or an ajnani [?] dies in the same manner. Why is an ajnani reborn, whereas a Jnani is not?
Maharshi: Just as an innocent man satyabhisandha is not affected by the test of touching red hot iron but a thief is affected, so also the sadbrahma satyabhisandha, i.e., a Jnani, enters into sat consciously and merges, whereas the other enters unaware and is thrown out unawares also.
Talk 107 Talk 109
Talk 108.
In continuation of dialogue 105: Uddalaka explained that all proceeds from sat [?] (as illustrated by deep sleep). The body takes food. Food requires water. Water requires heat to digest the food. (Tejo mulamanvichcha) It is sat parasyam devatayam (merged in the Be-ing). If we are sat sampannah (merged in the Be-ing), how is it that we do not realise it?
Maharshi: Just as the honey gathered from different flowers forms the bulk in a honeycomb, and each drop does not indicate wherefrom it has been collected, so also sat sampannah in deep sleep, death, etc. , people do not recognise their individualities. They slip into that state unawares. But when they wake up they regain their original individual characteristics.
D.: Honey, though collected from different flowers, becomes the bulk and does not possess individual characteristics. But the individual parts do not also exist in the drops and they do not return to their sources. Whereas the individuals after going to deep sleep wake up individuals as formerly. How is it?
Maharshi: Just as the rivers discharged into the ocean lose their individualities , still the waters evaporate and return as rain on the hills and through rivers to the ocean, so also the individuals going to sleep lose their individualities and yet return as individuals according to their previous vasanas unawares. Thus, even in death, sat is not lost.
D.: How can that be?
Maharshi: See how a tree, whose branches are cut, grows again. So long as the life-source is not affected it will grow. Similarly the samskaras (anamneses) sink into the heart in death: they do not perish. They will in right time sprout forth from the heart. That is how the jivas are reborn.
D.: How does the wide universe sprout forth from such subtle samskaras remaining sunk in the heart?
Maharshi: Just as a big banyan tree sprouts from a tiny seed, so the wide universe with names and forms sprouts forth from the heart.
D.: If the origin is sat why is it not felt?
Maharshi: The salt in the lump is visible; it is invisible in solution. Still its existence is known by taste. Similarly sat, though not recognised by the intellect, can still be realised in a different way, i.e., transcendentally.
D.: How?
Maharshi: Just as a man blindfolded and left by robbers in a jungle enquires his way home and returns there, so also the ignorant one (blinded by ignorance) enquires of those not so blinded and seeks his own source and returns to it.
Then, Gurupadesa - "Vang manasi sampadyate, manah prane,
pranastejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam iti."
D.: If so, a Jnani [?] or an ajnani [?] dies in the same manner. Why is an ajnani reborn, whereas a Jnani is not?
Maharshi: Just as an innocent man satyabhisandha is not affected by the test of touching red hot iron but a thief is affected, so also the sadbrahma satyabhisandha, i.e., a Jnani, enters into sat consciously and merges, whereas the other enters unaware and is thrown out unawares also.
Talk 107 Talk 109
Talk 107
29th November, 1935
Talk 107.
Later the Yogi (Yogananda) asked: How is the spiritual uplift of the people to be effected? What are the instructions to be given them?
Maharshi: They differ according to the temperaments of the individuals and according to the spiritual ripeness of their minds. There cannot be any instruction en masse.
D.: Why does God permit suffering in the world? Should He not with His omnipotence do away with it at one stroke and ordain the universal realisation of God?
Maharshi: Suffering is the way for Realisation of God.
D.: Should He not ordain differently?
Maharshi: It is the way.
D.: Are Yoga, religion, etc., antidotes to suffering?
Maharshi: They help you to overcome suffering.
D.: Why should there be suffering?
Maharshi: Who suffers? What is suffering?
No answer! Finally the Yogi rose up, prayed for Sri Bhagavan' s blessings for his own work and expressed great regret for his hasty return. He looked very sincere and devoted and even emotional.
Talk 106 Talk 108
Talk 107.
Later the Yogi (Yogananda) asked: How is the spiritual uplift of the people to be effected? What are the instructions to be given them?
Maharshi: They differ according to the temperaments of the individuals and according to the spiritual ripeness of their minds. There cannot be any instruction en masse.
D.: Why does God permit suffering in the world? Should He not with His omnipotence do away with it at one stroke and ordain the universal realisation of God?
Maharshi: Suffering is the way for Realisation of God.
D.: Should He not ordain differently?
Maharshi: It is the way.
D.: Are Yoga, religion, etc., antidotes to suffering?
Maharshi: They help you to overcome suffering.
D.: Why should there be suffering?
Maharshi: Who suffers? What is suffering?
No answer! Finally the Yogi rose up, prayed for Sri Bhagavan' s blessings for his own work and expressed great regret for his hasty return. He looked very sincere and devoted and even emotional.
Talk 106 Talk 108
Talk 106
29th November, 1935
Talk 106.
Swami Yogananda with four others arrived at 8.45 a.m. He looks big, but gentle and well-groomed. He has dark flowing hair, hanging over his shoulders. The group had lunch in the Asramam.
Mr. C. R. Wright, his secretary, asked: How shall I realise God?
Maharshi: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out what is intimate and go in for what is external?
D.: What is this Self again?
Maharshi: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. `I am' is the name of God. Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement "I AM THAT I AM" in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There are other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham [?]. But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM. The Absolute Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. In fact God is none other than the Self.
D.: Why are there good and evil?
Maharshi: They are relative terms. There must be a subject to know the good and evil. That subject is the ego. Trace the source of the ego. It ends in the Self. The source of the ego is God. This definition of God is probably more concrete and better understood by you.
D.: So it is. How to get Bliss?
Maharshi: Bliss is not something to be got. On the other hand you are always Bliss. This desire is born of the sense of incompleteness. To whom is this sense of incompleteness? Enquire. In deep sleep you were blissful: Now you are not so. What has interposed between that Bliss and this non-bliss? It is the ego. Seek its source and find you are Bliss. There is nothing new to get. You have, on the other hand, to get rid of your ignorance which makes you think that you are other than Bliss. For whom is this ignorance? It is to the ego. Trace the source of the ego. Then the ego is lost and Bliss remains over. It is eternal. You are That, here and now ... That is the master key for solving all doubts. The doubts arise in the mind. The mind is born of the ego. The ego rises from the Self. Search the source of the ego and the Self is revealed. That alone remains. The universe is only expanded Self. It is not different from the Self.
D.: What is the best way of living?
Maharshi: It differs according as one is a Jnani [?] or ajnani [?]. A Jnani does not find anything different or separate from the Self. All are in the Self. It is wrong to imagine that there is the world, that there is a body in it and that you dwell in the body. If the Truth is known, the universe and what is beyond it will be found to be only in the Self. The outlook differs according to the sight of the person. The sight is from the eye. The eye must be located somewhere. If you are seeing with the gross eyes you find others gross. If with subtle eyes (i.e., the mind) others appear subtle. If the eye becomes the Self, the Self being infinite, the eye is infinite. There is nothing else to see different from the Self.
He thanked Maharshi. He was told that the best way of thanking is to remain always as the Self.
Talk 105 Talk 107
Talk 106.
Swami Yogananda with four others arrived at 8.45 a.m. He looks big, but gentle and well-groomed. He has dark flowing hair, hanging over his shoulders. The group had lunch in the Asramam.
Mr. C. R. Wright, his secretary, asked: How shall I realise God?
Maharshi: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out what is intimate and go in for what is external?
D.: What is this Self again?
Maharshi: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. `I am' is the name of God. Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement "I AM THAT I AM" in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There are other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham [?]. But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM. The Absolute Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. In fact God is none other than the Self.
D.: Why are there good and evil?
Maharshi: They are relative terms. There must be a subject to know the good and evil. That subject is the ego. Trace the source of the ego. It ends in the Self. The source of the ego is God. This definition of God is probably more concrete and better understood by you.
D.: So it is. How to get Bliss?
Maharshi: Bliss is not something to be got. On the other hand you are always Bliss. This desire is born of the sense of incompleteness. To whom is this sense of incompleteness? Enquire. In deep sleep you were blissful: Now you are not so. What has interposed between that Bliss and this non-bliss? It is the ego. Seek its source and find you are Bliss. There is nothing new to get. You have, on the other hand, to get rid of your ignorance which makes you think that you are other than Bliss. For whom is this ignorance? It is to the ego. Trace the source of the ego. Then the ego is lost and Bliss remains over. It is eternal. You are That, here and now ... That is the master key for solving all doubts. The doubts arise in the mind. The mind is born of the ego. The ego rises from the Self. Search the source of the ego and the Self is revealed. That alone remains. The universe is only expanded Self. It is not different from the Self.
D.: What is the best way of living?
Maharshi: It differs according as one is a Jnani [?] or ajnani [?]. A Jnani does not find anything different or separate from the Self. All are in the Self. It is wrong to imagine that there is the world, that there is a body in it and that you dwell in the body. If the Truth is known, the universe and what is beyond it will be found to be only in the Self. The outlook differs according to the sight of the person. The sight is from the eye. The eye must be located somewhere. If you are seeing with the gross eyes you find others gross. If with subtle eyes (i.e., the mind) others appear subtle. If the eye becomes the Self, the Self being infinite, the eye is infinite. There is nothing else to see different from the Self.
He thanked Maharshi. He was told that the best way of thanking is to remain always as the Self.
Talk 105 Talk 107
Talk 105
28th November, 1935
Talk 105.
Maharshi: Yena asrutam srutam bhavati (Chandogya Upanishad). (By knowing which, all the unknown becomes known.)
Madhavaswami, Bhagavan's attendant: Are there nine methods of teaching the Mahavakya `Tat vamasi' in the Chandogya Upanishad?
Maharshi: No. Not so. The method is only one. Uddalaka started teaching Sat eva
Somya (There is only Being ) illustrating it with Svetaketu's fast.
(1) Sat [?], the Being in the individual, is made obvious by the fast. (2) This (sat [?]) Being is similar in all, as honey gathered from different flowers. (3) There is no difference in the sat of individuals as illustrated by the state of deep sleep. The question arises - if so, why does not each know it in sleep? (4) Because the individuality is lost. There is only sat left.
Illustration: rivers lost in the ocean. If lost, is there sat? (5) Surely - as when a tree is pruned it grows again. That is a sure sign of its life. But is it there even in that dormant condition? (6) Yes, take the instance of salt and water. The presence of the salt in water is subtle. Though invisible to the eye it is recognised by other senses. How is one to know it? What is the other means? (7) By enquiry, as the man left in the Gandhara forest regained his home. (8) In evolution and involution, in manifestation and resolution, sat alone exists. Tejah parasyam, devatayam (the light merges in the Supreme). (9) An insincere man is hurt by the touch of fire test. His insincerity is brought out by fire. Sincerity is Self-evident. A true man or a Self realised man remains happy, without being affected by the false appearances (namely the world, birth and death, etc.), whereas the false or ignorant man is miserable.
Talk 104 Talk 106
Talk 105.
Maharshi: Yena asrutam srutam bhavati (Chandogya Upanishad). (By knowing which, all the unknown becomes known.)
Madhavaswami, Bhagavan's attendant: Are there nine methods of teaching the Mahavakya `Tat vamasi' in the Chandogya Upanishad?
Maharshi: No. Not so. The method is only one. Uddalaka started teaching Sat eva
Somya (There is only Being ) illustrating it with Svetaketu's fast.
(1) Sat [?], the Being in the individual, is made obvious by the fast. (2) This (sat [?]) Being is similar in all, as honey gathered from different flowers. (3) There is no difference in the sat of individuals as illustrated by the state of deep sleep. The question arises - if so, why does not each know it in sleep? (4) Because the individuality is lost. There is only sat left.
Illustration: rivers lost in the ocean. If lost, is there sat? (5) Surely - as when a tree is pruned it grows again. That is a sure sign of its life. But is it there even in that dormant condition? (6) Yes, take the instance of salt and water. The presence of the salt in water is subtle. Though invisible to the eye it is recognised by other senses. How is one to know it? What is the other means? (7) By enquiry, as the man left in the Gandhara forest regained his home. (8) In evolution and involution, in manifestation and resolution, sat alone exists. Tejah parasyam, devatayam (the light merges in the Supreme). (9) An insincere man is hurt by the touch of fire test. His insincerity is brought out by fire. Sincerity is Self-evident. A true man or a Self realised man remains happy, without being affected by the false appearances (namely the world, birth and death, etc.), whereas the false or ignorant man is miserable.
Talk 104 Talk 106
Talk 104
28th November, 1935
Talk 104.
Mr. Kishorilal, an officer of the Railway Board, Government of India, hails from Delhi. He looks simple, gentle and dignified in behaviour. He has gastric ulcer and has arranged for his board and lodging in the town.
Five years ago he took up the study of devotional literature. He is a bhakta [?] of Sri Krishna. He could feel Krishna in all that he saw. Krishna often appeared to him and made him happy. His work was going on without any effort on his part. Everything seemed to be done for him by Krishna himself.
Later he came in contact with a Mahatma who advised him to study Vedanta and take to nirakara upasana, i.e., devotion to formless Being. He has since read about seven hundred books of philosophy and Vedanta, including the Upanishads, Ashtavakra, Avadhuta and Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
He has also studied Sri Bhagavan's works in English and is much impressed by them. Once when he was in the jaws of death, no other thought haunted him but that he had not yet visited Sri Bhagavan in his life. So he has come here on a short visit. He prays only for Sri Bhagavan's touch and His Grace. The Master said to him: atmaivaham gudakesa, i.e.,
I am Atman;
Atman is the Guru; and Atman is Grace also.
No one remains without the Atman. He is always in contact.
No external touch is necessary.
D.: I understand. I do not mean external touch.
Maharshi: Nothing is more intimate than the Atman.
D.: Again Sri Krishna appeared to me three months back and said, "Why do you ask me for nirakara upasana [?]? It is only sarva bhutesu cha atmanam sarva bhutani cha atmani. (The Self in all and all in the Self.)
Maharshi: That contains the whole truth. Even this is oupacharika (indirect).
There is in fact nothing but the Atman. The world is only a projection of the mind. The mind originates from the Atman. So Atman alone is the One Being.
D.: Yet it is difficult to realise.
Maharshi: There is nothing to realise. It is nitya suddha buddha mukta (the Eternal, pure, aware and liberated) state. It is natural and eternal. There is nothing new to gain. On the other hand a man must loose his ignorance. That is all. This ignorance must be traced to its origin. To whom is this ignorance? Of what is one ignorant? There are the subject and the object. Such duality is characteristic of the mind. The mind is from the Atman.
D.: Yes. Ignorance itself cannot exist. (He finally surrendered saying , "Just as a doctor learns what is wrong with the patient and treats him accordingly, so may Sri Bhagavan do with me". He also said that he had lost all inclination to study books and learn from them.)
Talk 103 Talk 105
Talk 104.
Mr. Kishorilal, an officer of the Railway Board, Government of India, hails from Delhi. He looks simple, gentle and dignified in behaviour. He has gastric ulcer and has arranged for his board and lodging in the town.
Five years ago he took up the study of devotional literature. He is a bhakta [?] of Sri Krishna. He could feel Krishna in all that he saw. Krishna often appeared to him and made him happy. His work was going on without any effort on his part. Everything seemed to be done for him by Krishna himself.
Later he came in contact with a Mahatma who advised him to study Vedanta and take to nirakara upasana, i.e., devotion to formless Being. He has since read about seven hundred books of philosophy and Vedanta, including the Upanishads, Ashtavakra, Avadhuta and Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
He has also studied Sri Bhagavan's works in English and is much impressed by them. Once when he was in the jaws of death, no other thought haunted him but that he had not yet visited Sri Bhagavan in his life. So he has come here on a short visit. He prays only for Sri Bhagavan's touch and His Grace. The Master said to him: atmaivaham gudakesa, i.e.,
I am Atman;
Atman is the Guru; and Atman is Grace also.
No one remains without the Atman. He is always in contact.
No external touch is necessary.
D.: I understand. I do not mean external touch.
Maharshi: Nothing is more intimate than the Atman.
D.: Again Sri Krishna appeared to me three months back and said, "Why do you ask me for nirakara upasana [?]? It is only sarva bhutesu cha atmanam sarva bhutani cha atmani. (The Self in all and all in the Self.)
Maharshi: That contains the whole truth. Even this is oupacharika (indirect).
There is in fact nothing but the Atman. The world is only a projection of the mind. The mind originates from the Atman. So Atman alone is the One Being.
D.: Yet it is difficult to realise.
Maharshi: There is nothing to realise. It is nitya suddha buddha mukta (the Eternal, pure, aware and liberated) state. It is natural and eternal. There is nothing new to gain. On the other hand a man must loose his ignorance. That is all. This ignorance must be traced to its origin. To whom is this ignorance? Of what is one ignorant? There are the subject and the object. Such duality is characteristic of the mind. The mind is from the Atman.
D.: Yes. Ignorance itself cannot exist. (He finally surrendered saying , "Just as a doctor learns what is wrong with the patient and treats him accordingly, so may Sri Bhagavan do with me". He also said that he had lost all inclination to study books and learn from them.)
Talk 103 Talk 105
Talk 103
19th November, 1935
Talk 103.
The next day Sri Bhagavan said: These people want some japa, dhyana , or yoga or something similar. Without their saying what they have been doing so far what more can be said to them? Again, why japa [?] , its phalasruti, etc.? Who is it that makes the japa? Who gets the fruits thereof? Can they not look to the Self? Or again, even if instructed by others to do japa or dhyana [?], they do it for some time, but are always looking to some results, e.g., visions, dreams, or thaumaturgic powers.
If they do not find them they say they are not progressing or the tapas is not effective. Visions, etc., are no signs of progress. Mere performance of tapas is its progress also. Steadiness is what is required. Moreover they must entrust themselves to their mantra [?] or their God and wait for its Grace. They don't do so. Japa [?] even once uttered has its own good effect, whether the individual is aware or not.
Talk 102 Talk 104
Talk 103.
The next day Sri Bhagavan said: These people want some japa, dhyana , or yoga or something similar. Without their saying what they have been doing so far what more can be said to them? Again, why japa [?] , its phalasruti, etc.? Who is it that makes the japa? Who gets the fruits thereof? Can they not look to the Self? Or again, even if instructed by others to do japa or dhyana [?], they do it for some time, but are always looking to some results, e.g., visions, dreams, or thaumaturgic powers.
If they do not find them they say they are not progressing or the tapas is not effective. Visions, etc., are no signs of progress. Mere performance of tapas is its progress also. Steadiness is what is required. Moreover they must entrust themselves to their mantra [?] or their God and wait for its Grace. They don't do so. Japa [?] even once uttered has its own good effect, whether the individual is aware or not.
Talk 102 Talk 104
Talk 102
19th November, 1935
Talk 102.
He returned with a request next day. He said, "It is said that one should receive instruction from a Guru. Mere reading of books is not helpful. I have read many books; but there is no practical help derived from such learning. Please tell me what I should do, how I should do it, at what times, in which places, and so on."
The Master remained silent. His silence seemed to say, "Here and now, be at peace and tranquil. That is all". But the questioner could not interpret it that way; he wanted something concrete.
Talk 101 Talk 103
Talk 102.
He returned with a request next day. He said, "It is said that one should receive instruction from a Guru. Mere reading of books is not helpful. I have read many books; but there is no practical help derived from such learning. Please tell me what I should do, how I should do it, at what times, in which places, and so on."
The Master remained silent. His silence seemed to say, "Here and now, be at peace and tranquil. That is all". But the questioner could not interpret it that way; he wanted something concrete.
Talk 101 Talk 103
Talk 101
19th November, 1935
Talk 101.
A gentleman from Ambala asked: What is the rationalistic explanation of Draupadi's sari becoming endless?
Maharshi: Spiritual matters cannot be fitted into rationalism. Spirituality is transcendental. The miracle was after Draupadi had surrendered herself. The secret lies in surrender.
D.: How to reach the Heart?
Maharshi: Where are you now that you want to reach the Heart? Are you standing apart from the Self?
D.: I am in my body.
Maharshi: In a particular spot, or all over?
D.: All over. I am extending all over the body.
Maharshi: Wherefrom do you extend?
D.: I do not know.
Maharshi: Yes. You are always in the Heart. You are never away from it in order that you should reach it. Consider how you are in deep sleep and in the waking state. These states are also not yours. They are of the ego. The consciousness remains the same and undifferentiated all through.
D.: I understand but I cannot feel it so.
Maharshi: Whose is the ignorance? Find it out.
D.: All this is so difficult.
Maharshi: The idea of difficulty is itself wrong. It will not help you to gain what you want. Again I ask: "Who finds it difficult?"
D.: I see that I am coming round to `I'.
Maharshi: Because you are always that and never away from that. There is nothing so simple as being the Self. It requires no effort, no aid. One has to leave off the wrong identity and be in his eternal, natural, inherent state.
Talk 100 Talk 102
Talk 101.
A gentleman from Ambala asked: What is the rationalistic explanation of Draupadi's sari becoming endless?
Maharshi: Spiritual matters cannot be fitted into rationalism. Spirituality is transcendental. The miracle was after Draupadi had surrendered herself. The secret lies in surrender.
D.: How to reach the Heart?
Maharshi: Where are you now that you want to reach the Heart? Are you standing apart from the Self?
D.: I am in my body.
Maharshi: In a particular spot, or all over?
D.: All over. I am extending all over the body.
Maharshi: Wherefrom do you extend?
D.: I do not know.
Maharshi: Yes. You are always in the Heart. You are never away from it in order that you should reach it. Consider how you are in deep sleep and in the waking state. These states are also not yours. They are of the ego. The consciousness remains the same and undifferentiated all through.
D.: I understand but I cannot feel it so.
Maharshi: Whose is the ignorance? Find it out.
D.: All this is so difficult.
Maharshi: The idea of difficulty is itself wrong. It will not help you to gain what you want. Again I ask: "Who finds it difficult?"
D.: I see that I am coming round to `I'.
Maharshi: Because you are always that and never away from that. There is nothing so simple as being the Self. It requires no effort, no aid. One has to leave off the wrong identity and be in his eternal, natural, inherent state.
Talk 100 Talk 102
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